Rick Denton: 0:05

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode we’ll talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. So, do you think 40 years of financial services industry experience might net some striking insights on the evolution of customer experience? Would experiencing the colossal shifts in banking in Texas in the 1980s shape a person's perspective on doing the right thing for the customer? Would being at the center of today's technology advancements for FinTech provide a perspective on digital customer experience? Yeah, after meeting today's guest, Lisa Nance, I am confident all of the answers above are a resounding yes. Lisa brings a depth of understanding of the banking industry, especially retail and business banking, right on the front line of what customers often think of when they think bank. Like other CX passport, guests, Lisa is entry into the world of customer experience doesn't necessarily match the traditional entry points. Yet, as I've come to learn about her career path, there are signs of customer experience all throughout the journey. I am looking forward to today's discussion. Lisa, welcome to CX passport.

Lisa Nance: 1:33

Thanks, Rick, I appreciate you having me on.

Rick Denton: 1:36

I'm looking forward to this is gonna be a lot of fun. Well, let's let's start with a look back. Considering everything you've seen in the industry. What surprises you most about the evolution of customer experience and financial services?

Lisa Nance: 1:47

Well, Rick, when I started out in banking, oh, those many years ago, the notion of CX it really didn't exist. It would typically manifest itself just an individual employees or leaders who just happened to be wired to think about the customer. But I've sat in so many meetings for so many years, and no one ever asked the question, How would this impact the customers? Or do our customers want this? Or what customers like this or find this frustrating? Nobody asked those questions. It was about cost, efficiency, revenue vary inside out thinking right? And so it there it wasn't that the people at the front line didn't care about employees we did we really cared about our employees. That's why you go into banking is to serve, you know, customers and meet their financial needs. But it just wasn't part of the strategy. So although that's not exactly your question, how I'm going to answer it is that it hasn't surprised me that financial services has embraced CX the way that they have, because at the heart of banking is you're wanting to take care of people, you're wanting to take care of businesses and provide them those financial services that they need. And then it might have been a few little companies like I don't know, Amazon, or Uber or southwest airlines that might have nudged them along just a little bit down that path. But it's not surprising that BankIn and CX have found a great partnership. You know,

Rick Denton: 3:23

that is so true. And it's almost becoming cliche. I hear it and more and more companies that I either in consulting for or just in conversations with, that they don't look to their industry peers as competitors, but they look to whoever is delivering an experience because guess what the customer is comparing your experience to those. So if, if you don't have a experience as seamless as a drive thru at your most efficient fast food restaurant, or you don't have as delightful of an ordering experience as you might at Zappos or something like that, it doesn't matter that you're better than your banking peers, the customer is going to compare you to those.

Lisa Nance: 4:01

So true. And can I tell you one of the biggest disruptors, the pizza tracker?

Rick Denton: 4:08

Oh, that's relevant to me right now.

Lisa Nance: 4:10

I'm sure if you have kids in the house, but I mean, you think about a loan application alone process. Those customers, they want a pizza tracker for their loan? Where is it in the process? Who's got it now wins again? When am I going to sign the pizza tracker has been to me one of the most disruptive elements in customer expectations that has come along, you know, in a long time,

Rick Denton: 4:32

what is the reason why I'm cracking up is it is an I promise, trust me client. The NDA has not been violated here. You are describing something that is a term that has come up over and over in our customer journey exercises with my current client. And it is all talking about the pizza tracker and it is so funny how people are pointing back to that. So you said something earlier, and I was talking about how you know is this inside out thinking and I think about that too, even in my own career. But you know, customer experience as a word as a term as a discipline is a relatively recent, you know, it's not like the last few years, but certainly 40 years ago, people didn't talk about it. But you said this exact same thing you said, in retail banking, it's about delighting those customers, even if you weren't thinking that you were doing that. But if you didn't delight them, they didn't stay. And so even before you had the label customer experience, before you thought of the the process, or the project of that, what were some of the initiatives that really stood out to you across that landscape of banking that you've had that you didn't realize was customer experience, but you look back, and now yeah, that was customer experience, you just didn't call it that at the time?

Lisa Nance: 5:40

Well, 40 years ago, consumers weren't, in my opinion, as likely to leave a bank as they are today. Most customers that I saw, left in the early years left for a couple of reasons, loan pricing, loan term conditions, and a really horrific service interaction. People were so much more tolerant back then, right, because there was nothing to set move their bar up. If something wasn't a good experience, it was not a surprise, they kind of expected it. So I think customers were a lot more tolerant back then than they are now. But I think the first project that I was on that really had an component of CX in it was in the big CRM revolution of the 90s. And the bank I was working for was installing a tool. I don't know if it's even still around Siebel, it's an Oracle product. And it was the first CRM, right, and we just thought it was so snazzy and state of the art. But as part of that, we're introducing a sales process that would be part of the components in the CRM system. And for the first time, when we were rolling this out, we talked about, including what we call the product needs assessment for the customers. So you were really asking questions of your client. These are mostly businesses, commercial customers, what their goals were for their business, what was their long term strategy, where their pain points in order to come back to them with the products wheat that would meet their needs. And that was probably the first time I saw the shift, we're more like product pushing, okay, we're gonna give you a line of credit, and an installment loan and this account net account to really dig deep with your client or your prospect and find out what they needed and what they wanted. So I think that was the first time I really saw any type of customer centricity enter into an initiative at the bank

Rick Denton: 7:39

that makes, I hadn't really thought of it that way. Because I'm thinking back to my experiences as a customer, or just even kind of my awareness of the industry back then. And that makes sense of, there was a time that it wasn't even relevant to ask the customer what product or forget what products, let's even start there. What's your business? Like? What are your needs? What are your aspirations? Where do you want this to go? And now Oh, my goodness, any sort of marketing that you see from any bank, it's all about that you almost don't even know what products the bank necessarily offers. It's more about them establishing that relationship and understanding who you are as a customer. And I felt that as a small business owner, yes, there's no silver bullet, but still have built that with my own bank as they explored the relationship with me and what are the product or products that I needed? And it wasn't, Oh, okay. You want a business checking account? Great. Here's the seven other products you need sign here, but rather, it was a conversation,

Lisa Nance: 8:30

right? Or here's the one product Yeah, we're gonna just give you we're not going to tell you about all these others. Because this is what we've decided is best for you. It's more solutions than just product.

Your CX Passport Captain: 8:40

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Rick Denton: 9:07

And that pivot from using solutions is the gateway into customer experience. That's interesting. And I've got to imagine, because I know that as we talked as you were growing up in this career, that wasn't officially customer experience when you then joined and I know you're not there now. But when you then join Texas capital bank, and you joined in that initially not in a customer experience role evolved that way. You migrated that way by working with another CX passport guest and Wetherspoon way back in episode six. She gets that single digit OG status not many get it but she's got single digit status. But I'm curious as you evolved into that CX role with decades of experience before it what really served you well in your prior experience that you then brought into customer experience.

Lisa Nance: 9:50

So when I joined Texas capital I'd actually come from I'd taken a boat wasn't really detour, 10 year stint and Mike We're at a at a software company. So I come from a technology background. And so when I joined Texas capital, I was in on a team that served as a liaison between the business and technology. And so in my role, my client was the business. That's who I was serving in that respect. And so it was my job to listen to what they said they needed. And in some cases, maybe provide an alternative that they weren't even thinking of or didn't realize was going to, you know, meet their need. Or it was helping assist implementing a technology that would help them do their jobs achieve their goals as a line of business or a segment inside of the organization. And then, in that role, I also was part of a an onboarding, reengineering major initiative that the bank launched, probably the second year I was there. And so on that project, the team actually went out and interviewed clients, some of them had recently left the organization, some of them were still there, but we knew they were a little bit, you know, unhappy. And so we got some very honest, yet painful feedback about what it was like to be a client, and then what that initial onboarding experience had been like. And that project actually turned out to be the foundation for many of the things that Ann and I did in the CX program that we established as Texas capital. And I also want to add to that I think my experience working at, I'm back at my former employer, Argo, working on some retail transformation projects with some of the really the largest retail banks in the country, also gave me some invaluable experience and prepared me in ways I didn't really know at the time, because I couldn't see to the future that I would, you know, end up in the CX space, but working with some of those really big banks as they tried to transform with technology, their retail organization.

Rick Denton: 11:55

That's interesting, how that that helped you evolve, there was something you said caught in the middle, that hit me. And it was we went out and talked to customers. And that's obviously a key foundation of everything, right? Get the customers insight, too, right? Those of us but heck, I've got my little pithy phrase, stop serving and score, start, listen, and act. And so many companies do just they, let's just get a score out of it. But I'm thinking about something you said that we had these really unhappy customers, and those were the ones that helped inspire us to do what we need to do with the onboarding experience, or whatever else it looked like. And complaints can be such gold that a lot of companies shy away from complaints, how have you sort of evolved? Or how is your approach been to complaints? Or even in that specific story? How did you use complaints to really identify, this is what we can do, and extract the gold from complaints?

Lisa Nance: 12:43

Well, I've ever said in some meetings, we're talking about launching surveys, you know, we're like, what's our next step was surveys and people say, well, the only people they're gonna respond are the people that are unhappy, and I'm like, good.

Rick Denton: 12:55

Yay.

Lisa Nance: 12:57

Jay Baer Hug Your Haters, that was a big transfer like that.

Rick Denton: 13:00

I haven't heard that. But I like that as well.

Lisa Nance: 13:01

Oh, yeah, that's a good one, Hug Your Haters. But you're gonna get the most valuable insight out of people who've not had a good experience with you. Because then you have an understanding of pain points, points of friction inside of your organization. So I've never shied away but to your point, don't ever ask a customer, anything, unless you're prepared to ask act on it, it's better off to just not ever ask them their feedback, what they think what they feel, if you're not going to do something about it, because you're probably going to dig in even deeper hole.

Rick Denton: 13:35

There's something so frustrating about that as a customer, especially when I've been a part of a recruit. So on business travel, right, that's one of the easiest ones, right? We travel has its its ups and downs. And my rental car experiences have had its ups and downs, and I get a survey from and I'm not even picking on any particular company, because I've had this experience with multiple companies. And I'll get that survey at the end. And I will tell the place a very specific thing that is relatively simple to change, like not that I'm asking for, you know, where is my Mercedes Benz when I've rented a, an economy, not that kind of stuff, but something really simple. And I go back to the same station week after week after week after week, and I see nothing happened. And yet I get that same survey over and over, I found myself getting snarky or snarky, or in the responses saying, Hey, I'm gonna be there at 8:33am on Monday, come say hi to me, you know, that sort of thing. So

Lisa Nance: 14:26

like I said, it's, it's digging a deeper hole, you ask and then don't act. And that's the tragedy. In my opinion of voc. It's so powerful, you know, get the voice of the customer. But organizations have really done a disservice to the treasure chest that that is by doing what you're saying. We have an NPS score. Well, good for you. That's like you took their temperature. And it was they were sick that day at that point in time, but to take Like the richness of what your customers are telling you and not acting on it, I think has really given the OC kind of a bad name. It's a little tragic.

Rick Denton: 15:08

It has, although I will say as a consultant who focuses specifically in that area of helping companies that have bought that voc tool, and helping them realize, oh, wait, the tool isn't enough. You need a real program a total voc. Right? It's that tragedy kind of helps me from a financial perspective, so I'm good with it. Capitalizing Yeah, my father, my father was an ear, nose and throat doctor down in Austin, Texas and Austin, Texas has some just atrocious cedar tree allergies.

Lisa Nance: 15:34

Oh my gosh, yes. Yes. allergy Hell. yeah.

Rick Denton: 15:36

And he had a picture in his office of a cedar tree just exploding with pollen. And he would say to Cedar is the best thing that's ever happened me. I love cedar. So there are people that I guess I've channeled that and that, I guess voc is my cedar and some companies.

Lisa Nance: 15:52

I do want to say some companies do it really, really well. I don't want to make it sound like any company who's collecting customer insights, that they're not acting on it. Some do really, really well. But there's so many organizations that that do not so.

Rick Denton: 16:05

Amen. But those aren't the ones hiring me. It's the ones that are doing

Lisa Nance: 16:08

you wouldn't have a a job, right?

Rick Denton: 16:11

That's right. So we were talking about rental cars. And it made me think of traveling, you had talked to me earlier about a recent trip to France. And I would just love to know a little bit about that trip. But also, you talked about how it impressed you and just the overall experience. But tell me about that trip.

Lisa Nance: 16:25

So my childhood friend and I had a we'll call it a milestone birthday in 2018. And so we decided we wanted to do something big. So we decided to go to France, specifically specifically to Normandy. And I had done very little international travel prior to this, and my friend had done even less, and I'd never gone to Europe. And so through some connections that she had, we discovered a trip that was being organised by this young couple. And they just did an amazing job making it easy for two novice travelers and maybe not quite that adventurous. have just a wonderful and amazing experience. Every aspect of the trip was organized. The whole thing was run. So well. Our only negative experience was getting from the airport to our hotel in Paris because we decided to book in a day in Paris at the beginning of day a Paris at the end since the trip was to Normandy and we didn't want to miss out being in Paris, France. And so I was like, we can take the metro. It won't be a problem. She was like no, no, we should get a cab. No, let's take the metro Well, I think it took us like three and a half hours hotel, but that wasn't their fault. That's when we were on our own but um, so it was just really amazing. And so you know, when you're a CX professional, your CX spidey senses are always up, right? You're always evaluating things from that CX, you know, point of view and lens. And so just the way that they had thought of so many little pieces along the way, just like I said, to make things really easy for us

Rick Denton: 18:16

I have to imagine that especially for a novice traveler to international you know, sometimes that travel can wear you out. And it can be nice to take a little break and so I want to take a little break with you here. And join me here in the first class lounge we will move

Lisa Nance: 18:30

I love first class Rick

Rick Denton: 18:32

Yeah, well so do i

Lisa Nance: 18:34

I don't travel it often but I love it.

Rick Denton: 18:36

It is it is very nice in the lounges are a we could get into a lounge discussion right now. Oh my gosh, the first class Cathay Pacific lounge in Hong Kong Airport, but we won't talk about that because that's not the purpose of the podcast.

Lisa Nance: 18:47

Amazing

Rick Denton: 18:48

It is beautiful, absolutely. But we will move quickly here and hopefully have a little bit of fun. What is a dream travel location from your past?

Lisa Nance: 18:55

It has to be France hands down.

Rick Denton: 18:58

And you mentioned Normandy I want to pull up that just a little bit. Tell me about Normandy when you were there.

Lisa Nance: 19:03

It was an anniversary. Was it 70 I don't know it was an anniversary of MD day. Okay, was one of the reasons that this couple had scheduled this trip to Normandy at this time. And my father was a World War Two veteran, okay. So to be he was never in combat, but to be down on those beaches to see so many of the remnants that are still there from the war, all these many, many decades later. The people in the villages that we went to, there were you always think about how much Americans are hated over on the other side, but they had welcome banners on the streetlights and thank you, you know, for you know, fighting and kind of messages in the windows of the shop. So it was just really very gratifying to see that their memory has not dimmed of that horrific conflict but then the role that America played in securing freedom for you know, for your But then the rest of the world. So it was a very, very moving moving experience so

Rick Denton: 20:05

that it beautiful and very moving. I haven't been there since 1995 on a cliche post collegiate backpacking trip. And I still remember standing over those cliffs wondering how, how on earth it is it is meaningful, and also just a stunningly beautiful part of the country as well. Gorgeous. So now that you've got that one under your belt, what is a dream travel vacation you've not been to yet?

Lisa Nance: 20:30

Well, it'd be a tie between Greece and Italy. So maybe a Mediterranean cruise. Do you believe that? Can I say that many parents together? That's right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's probably where I would pick. That's

Rick Denton: 20:41

nice. Well, given that you said Greece and Italy, this next question may be quite relevant. What is a favorite thing to eat?

Lisa Nance: 20:48

Well, you might be surprised. Again, I It's hard for me to pin anything down to one thing, but it probably be a toss up between Thai and a really good steak.

Rick Denton: 20:56

Oh, both of those. I love I haven't had that many people have said Thai. But there is some spectacular Thai food. And for those that wouldn't necessarily know Lisa and I live in the same Metroplex. So after the show, I may want to get your Thai recommendations. Several. That's awesome. What is on the other side, though? What's the thing your parents forced you to eat? But you hate it as a kid?

Lisa Nance: 21:17

Spinach. For you. I came from the generation where you clean to your plate. You didn't get like your custom food because that's all you just ate what everybody else ate. And so my mother actually let me put sugar on it. So you I would eat it. Doesn't that sound disgusting? But and now I love spinach. But yes, I hated spinach. And she let me put sugar on it. So

Rick Denton: 21:40

that one for me. Okay, sugar on the spinach. You don't sugar it still today? Do you?

Lisa Nance: 21:46

No. Okay, saute, garlic. And olive oil. Yeah, that's

Rick Denton: 21:53

what is one travel item now not including your phone, of course that you will not leave home without.

Lisa Nance: 21:59

So I discovered packing compartments when I was getting ready for my trips, we were gone almost two weeks to France. And I will never take another extended trip. Without those little pack. Apartments. It made the packing itself so easy. But then along the way you had to be organized or just stuff would get chaotic in your suitcase to be able to repack like clothes you weren't going to wear again. And those just kept everything organized and neat. And the room was not a didn't look like a you know, a retail store. It exploded. I love those packing compartments.

Rick Denton: 22:41

You don't think about how that trip to France that you described to me right there before the first class lounge applies to the business world. I'm thinking about that couple and how they designed the trip for you made you comfortable as a novice, how would you apply those same learnings of that trip to retail banking.

Lisa Nance: 22:57

When I think back on that experience, I think about all the planning and logistics that had to go into that trip, there were 30 of us, I suppose. And so and adults, of varying ages, couples, singles and so forth. So it was you know, there was it was a broad spectrum of their customer base, if you will. And this couple had done some trips in the past mostly with college students. So I guess in comparison, our trip was maybe a bit of a breeze because they sneaking out to go to the clubs at night or whatever, but but they I think they learned along the way with their travelers needed when structure was necessary. And when downtime would be a relief from the what could turn into a grind of get on the bus, get off the bus, you have to be here you have to be there. And so there was a really nice balance there. And our home base was this amazing estate in Normandy and one night some of the younger people decided they wanted to go out. And so a small group of us stayed back and we had this incredible evening playing games at macarons drinking wine and just hanging out together. But it was in a 300 year old chalet. So that was the experience that we wanted that night and the group that went out had a great time you know in the village and so just having that balance so I doubt that they did create a journey map but I can envision one for you know persona Lisa Nance, novice traveler of a certain age, you know what would you want to what experience would you want her to have emotions for her to experience? What are potential pain points? What's that moment of truth for her as she takes this journey? I can definitely see a journey map of that experience that would help Up, plot all of those and have that just intentional, positive experience that would, you know, build loyalty and results in a profitable experience for them. So yeah.

Rick Denton: 25:13

And you know, along with that idea of this specific journey mapping, the other thing that I heard you saying that that I think would be applicable is, and its journey map related, right. But it's the sense of, they knew their audience, and they only knew their audience by listening to their audience. So they were listening to the voice of the customer. So they may have known that Lisa would really want to enjoy just enjoying a night with snacks, and a beautiful 300 year old chateau. And also knowing that those that want to go out and hit the French clubs, but how would they know that if they didn't listen, but then they had to act on it as well. And so all of that woven together, I can retail banking or any other, it makes complete sense how that would apply for you, you've moved in and out, you've got you've been inside the tech industry, you've been inside of banking, how does that bounce between kind of inside the tech for a particular industry, and then inside the industry itself, gives you that sense of what technology can but then also what it can't do in banking and customer experience in general.

Lisa Nance: 26:17

You, Rick, you can't have a premiere client experience with just technology tools will never get you there. Because not that she can't evoke emotion. But it's not software to software tech to check. It's a human being on one side of that equation. But on the other hand, you cannot create in today's environment, in most industries, that premiere client experience without technology, because most of your clients, probably all of them nowadays are more and more dependent, and enmeshed with a device. And that device is how they live their life, I have one on my wrist, I have one in the pocket of my jacket. My car is basically a computer on wheels, right? You know, it's no longer just a mode of transportation. And so that's how we live our lives. So to find that balance between technology, and the human factor, and the experience is what can be really, really tricky. And then providing that path to let people seamlessly transition from the digital realm back into the human realm. So I think I think can think of experience when I was getting ready for my trip. Overseas, I've done some research because I wanted to be able to do some ATM withdrawals, if I needed I am a banker, right to be able to make take money out of an ATM. And so I had read up that Capital One had one of the best policies and accessibility in Europe for you know ATM and getting access to your money. So I went online to open an account with Capital One, which was really a great experience. I can't remember what happened along the way. But I ran into a little hiccup. And I was able to easily navigate to get someone on the phone to help me finish up and then of all things he asked me, you know, what I was doing about my trip, and he had just come back from France. So 10 minutes on the phone, obviously, they don't have average call handle time at Capital One. And they shouldn't, because that makes for a sometimes challenging experience when the agent is trying to get you off the phone because the clock's ticking. But anyway, so I was able to move from the digital realm to the human realm so seamlessly to get my account opened up. And so I think that's, you know, you just have to balance between the two, but you can't have one without the other. Not anymore.

Rick Denton: 28:43

Yeah. Oh, I like that. And I liked that story. Although I'm now wondering about the AI and the IVR technology, Capital One that somehow they knew you were going to France and so they paired you with an agent that

Lisa Nance: 28:54

that would be super cool. That would be very cool. I

Rick Denton: 28:57

Cool or Creepy? That may be our next LinkedIn wouldn't post

Lisa Nance: 29:00

If it gets me what I want. It's not creepy.

Rick Denton: 29:05

That's right.

Lisa Nance: 29:08

but It's definitely creepy.

Rick Denton: 29:10

What a great truth that is. You know, okay, so I'm looking at the clock. I'd like to ask you a whole lot of other things. But we're almost out of time here. And that that story of actually that capital one agent gets me inspired here. And I'm thinking about employees. Right. And it's true in every company, but especially in retail banking. Heck, it was your experience there in a banking scenario with Capital One, but they're the epicenter of creating customer experience. That's where it happens. So how do we make sure that we don't leave employees out of the equation?

Lisa Nance: 29:43

Well, my CX mentor and role model Anne Witherspoon, you said so many times you can't deliver an exceptional experience if your employees are grumpy? Yeah. So you cannot focus on CX without exp You know, some people call it customer, employee engagement, workplace experience, but all of that, because as you just said, as a CX practitioner, I don't deliver the experience, the employees in the organization aren't delivering the experience. So they're a rich source of insight. Voc is great. Awesome has its place. But your frontline employees, they're hearing every single day from employees, how they're experiencing your brand, and it's unvarnished, and unfiltered. And there's no, you're going to be in a drawing for a $50 gift card, right? They're just telling them the the blatant truth. And so that's also a great source that sometimes is, is ignored and taken in. And then they also, sometimes hiring an an HR, hiring for attitude, hiring for people that are wired, who have a passion for customers, I don't think you can teach empathy. I don't think you can teach people to care. And so when you're hiring people don't be so focused on can they do this, they have experience with that whatever. Look for people who really love clients who love people, and who have a passion for doing whatever it takes to make things right and to help people feel love accepted. You know, cared for known, that, to me is sometimes overlooked to when they're your hiring for frontline. Gosh.

Rick Denton: 31:28

So true. I just almost want to just sit here and steep in that wisdom. But we're out of time. And so I can't speak too long. But it reminds I actually read an article oh, gosh, it was on LinkedIn, maybe 2017. It's been out it's out there a while but I called it higher happy people. And it was inspired by Prentice Hall J. And that was one of their quotes was higher, happy people. And yes, if you're designing the wing for the newest Boeing, airplane evolution, maybe skills matter more than, you know happiness and attitude. But when it comes to customer experience, customer service, I'm absolutely with you that hire for heart teach the skills. And it's so true. And if something else you said in there that I've really valued was that your front lines are one of your best sources of voice of the customer. And to it too often companies just ignore that when it's that they spend millions of dollars investing in tools when you know what your your best resources, talk to your frontline. They know what the experience is so brilliant. Least I really enjoyed this. Thanks so much. How

Lisa Nance: 32:27

This has been a blast, Rick. I had a great time.

Rick Denton: 32:29

thank you. I'm glad that you enjoyed it, too. How can folks if they want to learn more about you learn a little bit more about where you're working? Some of the insights that you have, how can they get in touch with you?

Lisa Nance: 32:39

Well, I'm on LinkedIn. Lisa Nance. All right. That's it. That's my that's the best place to get to meet.

Rick Denton: 32:44

Well, I will certainly get that in the notes. Get your LinkedIn URL put there as well. Hey, thanks so much. Great conversation, loved hearing about your trip to France, but certainly loved hearing about the evolution of customer experience all throughout the industry over the last several decades. And just what that means today and the influence of the past and how that drives who you are today. It's been a brilliant conversation. Thank you so much, Lisa.

Lisa Nance: 33:05

Thanks, Rick. It's been delightful, so appreciate you having me on.

Rick Denton: 33:12

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. Make sure to visit our website cxpassport.com where you can hit subscribe so you'll never miss a show. While you're at it, you can check out the rest of the EX4CX website. If you're looking to get real about customer experience, EX4CX is available to help you increase revenue by starting to listen to your customers and create great experiences for every customer every time. Thanks for listening to CX Passport and be sure to tune in for our next episode. Until next time, I'm Rick Denton, and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.