Rick Denton: 0:05

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode we’ll talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. Today as a first for me, I currently live in a part of Texas where it's hard to find someone who actually grew up here. Most everyone where I live came from somewhere else, not just in the US, but from across the globe. But that pales in comparison to what it's like for my guest and where she lives. Yes, for the first time, I get to talk with someone who not only lives in Dubai, but was born and raised in Dubai. Today's guests Vaishali Dialani marks that first for me, I may think my little portion of Texas has a global influence. But nothing like Vaishali has experienced. think that might have an influence on by Vaishali's perspective on customer experience? you bet. So currently serving as the head of customer experience, for now money, the global customer is at the heart of what she and now money creates an experience a vision of a world where everyone has instant access to financial services they can and want to use no matter who they are, where they're from, or how much they earn. Now, that's an experience I can fully support. With Dubai serving as the crossroads for travel, I'll certainly want to get into by chalets, travel stories as well by Vaishali, Welcome to CX passport.

Vaishali Dialani: 1:40

Thank you so much. And thank you so much for lovely introduction.

Rick Denton: 1:44

I just love hearing my voice ya know, <laugh> when I have guests like you, it makes it very easy to create such a wonderful introduction. But let's talk about your journey to where you are now you didn't start your career doing traditional customer experience, where what's your journey to CX look like?

Vaishali Dialani: 2:00

I think I started about five years ago, and when I dived into, you know, the industry after graduating, I wanted to always get into marketing. And so when I started my journey as a marketer, you know, there were there were different branches of marketing opening up, there was digital marketing, there were different aspects of like you what you want to really get into events and different things. And I dived into market research. And little did I know it would lead me up where I am currently, I think doors open up for you as opportunities come across. So from a marketing background, your partnerships executive to you know, a market researcher, I dived into then CRM, which is then being able to manage data, how you analyze data, so I have different aspects of I didn't know that I was building pillars or learning about the pillars of customer experience. And and then I joined now when he rejoined now when you back in 2019, as Head of Communications and engagement. Now, when you're in a startup, you know, you're doing different things, and you're wearing different hats. Every day is a learning process. You know, when people ask you, what's your typical day? Like? There's no difficulty. So I used to do everything in anything that involves related to customers. And you know, it was I started off even answering chat, to learning about those customers behave like what is their engagement with us? Why they engaged? What what's the experience, like, you know, try to uncover a lot of things that I didn't know even existed. So a lot of that I think, led to being able to guide my path to customer experience. And then last year, as at this point, where I felt really saturated, you know, I'm like, I'm doing so many things, but I don't know, what's my niche. And that's when my discovery and journey to learn about CX really started off.

Rick Denton: 3:50

Interesting. And it's what was that kind of trigger? What was that muse? that got you to want to do that? So you discovered it, but why? Why CX? What is it that makes you want to pivot in that direction.

Vaishali Dialani: 4:01

So I was doing a project, with IDEO as a UX researcher for our company. And then I also started getting into UX design aspect of things. And I really enjoyed that. But I always felt like there was an element missing, because I felt while UX does really influence in the design and experience aspect of things, I still felt like, it's not giving me a holistic approach to things. It's only a one aspect design side of things. And I wanted to discover what was there out there more that it was just a very intuitive thing. It didn't really feel at this point where it's like, I was really searching for something my search began because I felt something was missing out and I wasn't able to see it for myself. So that's when I started researching a lot. I think I've pretty good at what I do. So I think that led me to finding CX as my thoughts.

Rick Denton: 4:52

I love it. And there's a there's actually a phrase that you had said to me that I'm suspecting is a part of that conversion as well. And it was something that she's You said it. And so the its customer experience is a core quality within me. I want you to expand on that. What do you mean by that? What does it look like in you? But then I'm also curious, what might it look like and others?

Vaishali Dialani: 5:14

Very good question. Yeah, I remember that during our earlier discussions. And I think, when I started, you know, reading about what sales professionals do, and who they are, you know, what they look like, or just be able to create an idea persona on my head of is that the person I want to be is that the person I'm driving towards? When I was on my search and my journey, what I realized is, you know, a lot of blogs research that the very empathetic as individuals. And I realized that I, and then you know, you do this, you have a part of you that researches and then there's a part of you that analyzes and reviews and then you compare. So I was in that thought, and you know, creating like a table where I'm like, This is me, this is this is not really me, trying to write in the Apollo, like self discovery journey. And so when I started doing that, I realized that I am pathetic. And I cross reference that back to my years of life and seeing if I have been empathetic as an individual. And it made me realize that whenever I was doing any kind of UX work, I was doing research, I was generally empathetic, just in professional career, but also personally, I'm a very empathetic person, as a teenager, I knew it was just a one day thing that I realized that I should not be eating animals so that they became a vegetarian. It was, I think a lot of you as a core quality comes from within, and it's an intuitiveness that you have another one they usually say that a CX professional has, or is, is a problem solver. They don't give up on things, they find solutions to problems, right. And I think that comes from my grounding and my upbringing as an individual. My parents always say, like, don't give up on things, you know, just try and find a solution for every problem, because there is definitely estimation is just you can't see it, or you haven't worked hard enough to find it yet. So I think that comes from my upbringing as well. And that has shaped my personality to who I am as an individual.

Rick Denton: 7:18

I want to so that you said a couple of things there that actually caused my brain to sort of snap for a second. And I do want to hear how you see that and others that third part of the question, but you said something interesting, me there, you talked about, you know, the empathetic nature, the core of the empathy, that heart of the customer and I wrote a blog back in I think 2017 About hire happy people inspired by a friend of mine Jays chief happiness officer, right. So that concept of hire happy people is an important one, and that an eight part. But what I found interesting is you said, but then I built a spreadsheet to identify that. And I feel like there's something about customer experience that has this unique blend, and maybe not unique, has a special blend of that heart, and the brain. So the fact that you were using a spreadsheet to define how empathetic you had been, and what the that aspect of it. I think that's something particularly important in the CX world is being able to blend those two worlds. Have you seen that?

Vaishali Dialani: 8:12

Yeah, absolutely. I think while you're absolutely right on that, and it does really involve the best of both worlds. You can't just do a motion and say, right, this is the best thing for the customer. And this is what we should do. But you have to look logically, what are the finances like? Is it viable as a as a solution that you want to do? How long does it take so you need that brain under heart to be able to pull that right customer experience for for your customers? 100% and I think I do that personally a lot. So subconsciously, I think it's a part of my thinking process that has then evolved into everything else I do

Your CX Passport Captain: 8:54

This is your captain speaking. I want to thank you for listening to CX Passport today. We’ve now reached our cruising altitude so I’ll turn that seatbelt sign off. While you’re getting comfortable, hit that Follow or Subscribe button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. I’d love it if you’d tell a friend about CX Passport and leave a review so that others can discover the show as well. Now, sit back and enjoy the rest of the episode.

Rick Denton: 9:20

Yeah, it is interesting. I had I'm sure I thought about it before but the way you said it there when you're talking about empathy and a spreadsheet, right? Those two worlds you would think are about as opposite as possible now that I interrupted you and didn't allow you to ask answer the third stream of that and that was that idea of okay, so how do you see that in others, right? You are not a CX person of one. There are CX people. You're trying to create teams and companies that are customer centric and all of those cliches. How do you find that in others? What does it look like?

Vaishali Dialani: 9:49

That's all hard one, honestly, because it's, it's important to break that ice. I think it all starts from being able to break eyes with your co workers or your past. Mercy, because a lot of you do not come from similar backgrounds will have to unlearn a lot of things to be able to learn. If you're only stubborn as an individual, you will not really be learning or getting enough from the other person and never be empathetic towards them. So it revolves around you putting your head down and saying, you know, I'm just, it's an open heart. And it's an open book, I'm just going to learn whatever I can, and just brainstorm and take on other people's brains to see what their experiences have been and why they're saying what they're saying, to then go back and think, right, which category does that person's opinion fall into? And why are they saying that? And then you sort of automatically build empathy for them. You know, it doesn't. It's not something that happens overnight. It's a journey. It's a process. But it's a it's a, it's an open book process.

Rick Denton: 10:47

The you may have seen me take my pen out and write something down. I didn't capture the exact quote, that's the beauty of going back and listen this but the idea of having to unlearn what you've learned, right? We all bring our own experiences into a situation, but to have the best empathy, and it's not that you're saying forget it, I realize unlearn is one element of it, right. But it's that willingness to explore and be willing to accept and understand someone else's experiences, your experience growing up in Dubai is going to be completely different than my experience growing up in Austin, Texas, USA, right. And so, but that allows us to create a blend and a conversation around customer experience that provides all those different experiences. And I just love that aspect of that unlearn really hit my my ears in a wonderful way. You You have said something else to me other the beauty of a pre call is we get to talk about some things that I want to bring in here. And you mentioned that, once you've been declared the customer experience person or the customer experience team, that sometimes it can feel like a dumping ground that people just say, alright, anything related customer, let's go dump it on that team, and they have to deal with it. But that's not really what customer experience is about. So why do you think that happens? And what should a CX person do when they're becoming that customer problem dumping ground?

Vaishali Dialani: 12:00

Yeah, it's a good question. I think a lot comes from the culture within within the company. You know, it depends because CX is now trending is now a huge thing across different organizations. That wasn't there a couple of years ago, you know, now it's the talk of the town. So I think, and everyone is like, oh, because the experience experts, yeah, great. Everyone is but how you implement it is, is a whole different ballgame. So I think one aspect of things, I'll take the first question and say that, when why that happens, I think because CX doesn't have its own grounding, as a department or silo yet, you know, you will see organizations, a normal, traditional organization hierarchies in the sales and marketing, there is data and analytics, which allows the customer experience department, you know, it's more of a cost cutting thing. Now, it's, you know, now it's converting to like, oh, actually, they're more important, and that their value add will reflect maybe not in the short term, but long term, impact of the business for sure. I think one, that's what it happened. One reason that it happens is because we don't have our own little team. And that kind of is a challenge, which is good to have, because then you're a cross functional department. It opens a lot more doors and people can imagine. And that allows you to actually interact with everyone. Because once you're in a silo, you're just very limited the knowledge of the business. But once you become a cross functional department, which we are in our organization, and it's great place to be, you actually are very open with other departments from product aspect of things, or data or customer service or, you know, tech. So once you learn from different people, you obviously might have a certain solution, but you might not think that's the best way to implement it in a short term or long term, depending on other factors or inputs from other organization. Other departments. Sorry. So I think, one that's why it happens. And the second part of your question is what a CX person can do when that occurs? Is the open minded.

Rick Denton: 14:10

Okay, fitting that what you said before, right, just come in with a conversation with an open mind.

Vaishali Dialani: 14:15

Yeah, but But it's not just that it starts with being able to speak the same language, what you'll realize is, when you're in different departments, and silos, everyone has that terminologies that they use. They're very restricted to that. That's how they communicate. So I feel like something that we did in our organization was have a similar tone of voice. That's the customer's tone of voice. So you actually talk language that the customer would talk and how they would perceive you. So when you start doing that, as as a CX professional, you feel everyone's aligned and involved in the process with you and building up that with you and you don't feel just accountable for that one thing. Everyone has the inputs and so that accountability from different different departments really helps meet that challenge or problem of a customer, everyone's problem. It makes it problem of the business rather than a site or department

Rick Denton: 15:07

that that using. So I've said things like use the voice of the customer to influence change in a company, right? I mean that literally like if you've got call listening, bring the customers call in and play it in those sorts of things. But I like what you're saying there. And that is that that customer tone of voice and make that your internal company way of speaking. That's a that's something I haven't heard someone say before. And that's something I've heard, there's something really deep in there that the idea of how can we make the way we speak inside our company, mirror reflect be similar to what our customers and how they speak? I really like that approach to it. That's, that's interesting.

Vaishali Dialani: 15:46

Yeah. So I actually realized there was a gap in the way like, obviously, I would hear customer aspects of things. And then also the business aspect of things. And once you know, you get to listen to the best of both worlds, you realize there is a gap, and you can identify that gap very easily. So I think that's how it really started off with me being able to learn about it within our organizations, this whole tone of voice aspect of things within a donor guide of anyone new onboarded knows what language we're speaking, then can really, you know, be able to think a similar process like this, bring their approach and experience, but then really be able to bring that across,

Rick Denton: 16:25

I think you may have just created your next book title. So I'll let you have that customer tone of voice for a little while. But if if I don't see a book coming out from you, then I may have to steal that and write my own book there. But there's some there's something really meaty there. Actually, I like that one. Yeah, something else that you said, and I want to I can't wait too much longer to get to travel. But this idea of where you talk about cross functional, I think that's so valuable to and helping people realize that customer problems aren't just something to hand over to some other group. But rather and whether it's a CX one, because there are plenty other companies that have customer experience teams, others that don't customer service, whatever that looks like. But there are that idea of great, I'm so glad you identified that problem, finance, I'm so glad you identified that problem sales, great, let's work together on how we can create the right and so that cross functional, that code design that code develop that code implement you the way you describe that, and the way that I've seen that work really well at companies is very, very true. Now, I did say that I was going to pivot into travel, and I can't wait any longer not to talk about Dubai and the fact that you are Dubai, born and raised. It's it to me, it's a fascinating place. And I haven't even been there that there's nonstop flights from all over the globe to Dubai now. And it's become this crossroads. So I'm curious, since you've grown up there, how have you seen that influence Dubai itself? But then also, how has it opened up travel opportunities for you?

Vaishali Dialani: 17:52

Interesting question. I think I've had a privilege to be the third generation here, really. And that it all started off with my grandparents moving to Dubai, and if they had any idea wouldn't be here. Who knows? You know? So I think so I think it starts off with that. How has Dubai influenced me as an individual, I think it comes a lot from the leadership of this country. And you know, the comment, the way we have evolved over the years, and the dishes decisions they take for everything that they do is incredible how that influences me, I think it really gives me a constant growth opportunity. Because there is so big and there's always so much happening around here. It really allows you to grow along with the city and the country itself, the more the opportunities, they fall for you as well. So that I think that's a huge, it's a really hot spot for people who want to grow. And by allows you to grow as an individual.

Rick Denton: 18:50

Nice, very, very nice. And I can't even imagine what you've seen in the change that you've seen now. We'll talk about this, I'm going to bring you into the first class lounge a little later. But I've got imagine just in general has that exposed opportunities for you to travel as well. And some of the things that you've seen just because of Dubai's physical location, its spirit towards travel its Crossroads element. How has that opened up for you?

Vaishali Dialani: 19:14

I think one thing that I would like to add in Great question, by the way, one thing I just like to add in before on the previous point is also while opportunities have grown here with our physical location, we have the best of Eastern and Western cultures as well. Which really helps to like people from the west come to Dubai because of the opportunities as well as the East which then allows people who have been here all their life really open up to being able to understand different cultures and be exposed to different cultures and different mindsets and people from different backgrounds. So that has really influenced in my own upbringing because I see that I can wherever I go to the east or the west. I'm very comfortable and I can know how they think or what their culture is like, which really helps me be more empathetic towards them but also You know what to do and what not to do, you know? In terms of travel opportunities, you know, it's the best of both worlds because being in the Middle East, you really, you can travel either way around and you have constant flights. I do not know a world where I can just pick up a flight overnight and just travel somewhere

Rick Denton: 20:25

All right, well, surely with that kind of travel with that kind of, I actually can visualize us walking into the airport there in Dubai and just staring at the departures board and saying, what I want to go today, but some of those flights are really long, I have got a nonstop flight from DFW to Dubai. Right. So and those are long. And it can be nice to have a little break in the first class lounge. So I'd like to invite you into the first class lounge join me here. We'll move quickly and have a little bit of fun here. What is a dream travel location from your past?

Vaishali Dialani: 20:55

I really wanted to travel to Chicago, which I did in May this year.

Rick Denton: 20:59

Who? Okay, so you, you just got got back there because we're recording that for those that we're recording this in the July of 2022 timeframe? How was Chicago? How was that? Was that your first time to Chicago? You said

Vaishali Dialani: 21:12

it was? Yeah. Your friends and family there. It was amazing to be there. I've heard it's one of the most beautiful cities in the world. So I really wanted to travel to Chicago also, because I have a spiritual center there that I really wanted to visit. Okay. So it was it was a dream city. I really wanted to go and it was exciting. I love traveling, actually. So yeah,

Rick Denton: 21:32

well, good choice. And I've been to Chicago a few times. I know where it's placed in the US and so may sounds like a good time to visit Chicago now I challenge you I surely go there in February and see how you feel about Chicago. But yeah, it was a wise wise choice. What is a dream travel location you've not been to yet.

Vaishali Dialani: 21:54

I really want to go to Norway to see the Northern Lights.

Rick Denton: 22:01

Yeah, that does sound nice. Somebody was on now I'm not remembering but someone was talking about their experience with the Northern Lights. And it's just it's spectacular. One day, you're right. I need to add that to my dream travel location. You've had exposure to you mentioned all over the globe. So this this question may be a bit challenging, but what is a favorite thing for you to eat?

Vaishali Dialani: 22:21

I mean, being here and raised here. I love Lebanese it's my go to food. Lebanese cuisine once a week for sure. I really missed that. You know, like I was in the US and Canada in May. And I really missed my hummus. It's a blessing. Honestly. Once you come here you can there's no other way you can get better Lebanese food, I promise

Rick Denton: 22:48

Okay. All right, that Challenge accepted. This will be interesting. I'll I'll test that out for sure. On the other side, what is the thing your parents forced you to eat, but you hate it as a kid?

Vaishali Dialani: 22:59

I still do not like it. I don't hate anything really. Particularly I don't have an extreme aspect to things but I do not enjoy cottage cheese. Which is very strange. Because as a vegetarian, one loves.

Rick Denton: 23:13

What are your key protein sources right there that you've cut out? You know, I didn't. I love cottage cheese at this point. But man, it was not until I was in my 30s I'm serious about this, I think my 30s or 40s Even before I really started to enjoy it. So there's still time, maybe you'll convert?

Vaishali Dialani: 23:31

I think it's a process like it takes some some some food items take a little time to get adjusted to this. That's right.

Rick Denton: 23:39

That's right. All right, with all your global travels, what is one travel item not including your phone that you will not leave home without

Vaishali Dialani: 23:50

a jacket I always feel cold I love to carry a shawl or a jacket.

Rick Denton: 24:00

Vaishali , we talked about how Dubai is is a crossroads and a very global community. But often you've mentioned it can be its own bubble as well. So how do you but also from a company perspective, how does now money break out of that bubble to understand and deliver customer experiences that have such a globally diverse customer base?

Vaishali Dialani: 24:20

Very interesting question. A lot comes from the culture of the company and the willingness to try different things. So I think as, as, as a, as a company, we are very open to experimentation, which really gives us the liberty to really try and test things to know what works for the customer and what doesn't work for the customer. Once you get into this, this culture of being able to research design, deploy, test, see if it works, doesn't work, get feedback, and do this whole process over and over again. You learn a lot about customers like what they do Like, and it is a continuous process. So while we divide, like his bubble where you are really protected and safe in your own in your own space. Now, when he was actually one of the first ever FinTech companies in the US in the region to be able to establish themselves the way we have, and that comes from our co founders a lot. It also allows how there is so much independence within us. So like within the company culture itself, our core values are quite tight, be quite independent, and get very accountable and ethical as individuals know that we're working towards a bigger mission to be able to do something that is more impactful at a much larger scale than just doing a traditional business. Yeah, that really, that feeling within all of us in the organization, anyone you meet, you will see that everyone's working for the mission, it's not just a nine to five job for us where we like to call them, we know that we're working for somebody who will then send money to their families back home. And knowing that they were making somebody's life simpler, and more happy. It's a, it's a sight of it's a contentment, or joy, only one can experience when they are in that place.

Rick Denton: 26:20

There is something I'm gonna circle back to something you said at the beginning, it's that it sounds like that heart of empathy is how you're breaking out of that bubble, right? It's that maybe, you know, for example, you and others may not need to be sending money back home, or maybe you are right, but but even without that personal experience of it. But having that heart for the customer who is experiencing that and knowing how it's improving the lives for their families back home, helps you want to break out of that bubble and understand what that customer is experiencing. And it sounds like it comes back to that that root of of empathy.

Vaishali Dialani: 26:54

Yeah, it does. I mean, you won't even believe when we have situations where there are public holidays, and there's something that's gone, you know, in the price of the users and money or have some financial issues, we are on our toes, it doesn't matter. For us, it matters is that that person who earns just enough amount to you know, be able to bring bread and butter back home. Something has happened to his money or you know, in the process. And he's all he's not able to send things of any other particular reason? How can we really be the first ones he can think of? And be on top of his mind, when it comes to being able to be there for the customer? Even visually, virtually right? You can't be physically present with them. But how can you release themselves and then make them feel close and connected to your brand? ,

Rick Denton: 27:44

I hear that through and through in what you're describing there. This is, there's something special going on there. Now, I want to ask you a question that's kind of near and dear to my heart. And it's this idea of companies often think that just tossing out a survey, and maybe looking at some scores and I that that's listening to the customer, all right, when we send a survey and we saw some scores in our corporate meeting, yay, it scores went up OBU scores went down, right, but it's a pithy phrase that I often say in my customer experience, advisory company, stop survey and score, start, listen and act. So I'm curious, what does listen to the customer mean to you?

Vaishali Dialani: 28:24

You know, not everything the customer says about listening to them. A lot of things they do not even say that will say, yeah. A lot of that comes from your intuitiveness of knowing your product in and out. Putting yourself down at the foot of the customer and saying would you like that particular experience? A lot of it comes from, you know, understanding data, and seeing where that which journey did the customer, not particularly reach out to but stop the journey, even though they were just about to complete the transaction, or they were just about to do something. So, like I said, you know, it's a lot about throwing service is not the solution to the problem. That's not the customer experience that anyone else wants anymore. You need to bring the wow factor for the customer. And that comes from them not even knowing that they wanted something and you're serving them already. Oh, nice. Yeah. So I think that is very, very important. And once once companies start thinking in that certain particular direction is like, what's next for the customer? What is the being that one step ahead for the customer and saying, I already know what he's thinking, and I will serve it to him in a way that he knows. You will automatically get your scores and your service up. Honestly, it's about it's more psychological in the way of things it is, rather than it being oh, let's do an NPS poll. Let's do a certain score and find out so customers like us are more likely to recommend us. I always believe and I truly believe that is if your customer has To experience engagement, loyalty and retention will follow.

Rick Denton: 30:04

I think I just want to stop on that by Vaishali . I feel like I really like that if I were to actually just hit the stop button at the end of that, quote, I think that's exactly where we need to end that's a wonderful way to close that idea of the experience will drive everything else and a lot of us know that it's become a cliche we're starting to believe it or not starting those of us in the CX world believed it for a long time. We're seeing wider and wider adoption of that as reality not just as theory Oh, it's up in the air, but really actual practice what a great conversation by chalet. If someone wants to get to know you, or have asked you some questions or get in touch with you or learn more about now money, what's the best way for them to do that?

Vaishali Dialani: 30:42

Yeah, they can definitely check us out on LinkedIn. Now money on the on LinkedIn and under Vaishali Dialani.

Rick Denton: 30:50

Awesome. I will get that. Certainly put in the show notes before. Thank you so much for spending time with me here on CX passport today by Vaishali. It has been as I expected a treat for me. And this is actually the beginning of my week. It's the first thing I've done on a Monday morning and what a great way to kick off the week for me so thank you for selflessly allowing me to start off my week in such a wonderful way. Great conversation today. I enjoyed it thoroughly. Vaishali

Vaishali Dialani: 31:15

thank you so much. It was such a lovely chat. I really enjoyed it. And you're such a great host.

Rick Denton: 31:24

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. Make sure to visit our website cxpassport.com where you can hit subscribe so you'll never miss a show. While you're at it, you can check out the rest of the EX4CX website. If you're looking to get real about customer experience, EX4CX is available to help you increase revenue by starting to listen to your customers and create great experiences for every customer every time. Thanks for listening to CX Passport and be sure to tune in for our next episode. Until next time, I'm Rick Denton, and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.