Rick Denton: 0:05

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode we’ll talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. Have you created a trending hashtag, one that captures an entire community's attention each day, a daily moment that generates great discussion and ideas, both the serious and the comical. Maybe followed one. So think about the experience that goes into something like that. That's how today's guest Jeremy Watkins, director of customer experience and support at number barn. And I came to know each other Jeremy stewards the great hashtag CXQOTD, or CX Question of the day. If you're in customer experience arena of any flavor, and you're not following and engaging with us on Twitter, I highly recommend. I've learned quite a bit about customer experience. And I've also just simply been entertained through the conversations that take place each day here. Thinking about his day job. When you're the director of customer experience and support at a company of 30 people, you really get involved in all aspects of customer experience. It'd be fun to get Jeremy's perspective on this today. When Jeremy and I talked earlier, he had so many travel stories that I'm not sure which ones we'll cover today. I love that global perspective. Jeremy, welcome to CX passport.

Jeremy Watkin: 1:46

Thank you, Rick, it's great to be here today.

Rick Denton: 1:49

Let's have a little bit of fun here. And and listeners, I said this to Jeremy earlier, there's a major thunderstorm blowing through my room, North Texas region. So if you hear some booms, and you hear that let's just consider the fun ambient noise of Texas in November. And we'll see if as long as the power stays on, I think we'll keep recording Jeremy,

Jeremy Watkin: 2:06

it is sunny and 74. In San Diego, I just wanted to make sure you knew that.

Rick Denton: 2:11

I think we're going to end the podcast here. One minute in and I'm already just I'm out. That's it, I get about it. I'm getting on a plane to Phoenix tomorrow, so at least it'll get a little better. But hey, let's start with your work at number barn. In the intro, I mentioned it was 30 employees. And we often talk about the big brands when we're talking about customer experience. But the reality is most businesses certainly in the US, but also around the globe. They're just not massive. They're small, they're medium sized businesses. And this is the cliched roll up your sleeves delivery of customer experience. So if I'm thinking about just one element, voice of the customer, what does the practical Voice of the Customer approach look like to you?

Jeremy Watkin: 2:52

So I think there, there are a few facets to that, Rick, that when I think about it at a small company like ours, we still refer to ourselves as startup. You know, we have surveys where we listen to customers. We obviously my team is listening is talking to customers every day, mostly in writing. But so those conversations are happening. And when I think about voice of customer, it's it's really about listening to those conversations. It sounds silly to even have to define voice of customer, customers or talking or listening one of my favorite ways to listen that I spoke about this recently and add somebody thought it was cool. So I'm going to repeat it is we listen, anytime we have to say no to a customer. You know, as a startup, we're we're some days we're fighting for survival. Right? So if we have to say no to a customer, maybe that's an opportunity to figure out how we can say yes, instead could be could be a bug in our system. Our system is not working the way it should be. It could be a feature request that they're asking for that. You know, if enough customers asked for it, maybe we should do something about it.

Rick Denton: 4:09

I like that idea. It reminds me a little of the old improv world that you never ever are supposed to an improv negate someone. So no, in those sorts of elements. It's always yes. And and so almost in that same vein, if a customer identifies some challenge, okay, yes, that's a challenge. And here's what we're going to do about as opposed to No, we can't do that for you. What like on a just a practical layer with these customers with all these voices that want to be heard and acted upon? How did you get started? How did number barn get started? Because you're not going to probably go out there and have the fanciest and slick his tools. But how can somebody get started in that listen and act approach to voice the customer?

Jeremy Watkin: 4:50

Well, I think I think the first thing is you have to recognize that the information is already there. Yeah, I come from a contact center background. So there are You know, what's our what's our ticket? But we probably have about 4000 tickets in a month? And how can you dive into that in in a sustainable way that that allows us to understand what customers are saying, and then how often they're saying it. So So I think the challenge is, and you know, when I'm talking to a room of contact center professionals, where they're handling, you know, 100,000 interactions out there, or more like, the challenge is even greater. And that's where it's, you know, maybe you need to bring in analytics tools. But, you know, I think simple things, if you're a small team, you can use things like macros, which are kind of like canned responses, but you can like apply tags to certain ticket types and, and find some ways to narrow down different issues. And then, and then use that as your launching points to them learn what customers are saying about those issues. And then you can even get into, you know, we're a phone number. We're all about phone numbers, that number barn, excellent. So we do, we do a lot of number porting, which is a super exciting thing to learn about. Reporting, putting numbers in and out all the time. And once you know what customers are staying, you can start mapping out the journey from A to Z in that porting process and start improving some of those things. But But yeah, I think you don't have to wait for some crazy piece of technology to start doing that you can. It's as simple as opening up your ticketing system or your phone system and start reading and listening.

Rick Denton: 6:38

Yeah. And, and that reminds me of when I was, I was at a larger company, but a smaller team that had not yet tapped into the larger tools that exist inside of that company. So we did exactly what you're describing. We just started reading what the verbatims this was a survey based area of voice the customer that we were looking at, to be clear survey and voice the customer, not the same thing for customers larger than that, just like he said, but exactly that we just started reading and trying to learn and using that as listening. And what I like hearing out of what you're saying there is it isn't a well, we can't do that whole voice the customer thing, we can't do that customer experience thing, because we're just too small note right from the beginning. You're talking about getting out there and just start with doing something.

Jeremy Watkin: 7:24

Yeah, absolutely. And surveys are a great place to start.

Rick Denton: 7:27

Yeah, they're a good place to start. You know, there's a thread here that I want to pull that in something you said you said, I can't believe we're having to even talk about what voice of the customer is. What do you mean by that? Oh, no, I want to poke at that a little bit. I think there's some interesting thought there.

Jeremy Watkin: 7:42

Okay, so I had a CX Question of the day. It's been a couple of months, I guess, where I asked, what are some things in customer experience that we pay lip service to? And, and don't actually do it? And I'm totally picturing, I don't know if you've seen the movie, what about Bob, when Bob like, takes this book called Baby steps, and like, doesn't read a thing about it and starts applying baby steps to his life. I feel like that's what voice of customer is like, where it's, it's easy to say we're listening to the voice of the customer or because we send a survey out every so often that we have a voice of customer program. But But I think we we fail sometimes to actually systematize it and build out a full comprehensive program that is like at the end of the day, you can say, Yeah, I have a pretty good finger on the pulse of what my customers are saying and feeling and thinking and doing ultimately

Your CX Passport Captain: 8:49

This is your captain speaking. I want to thank you for listening to CX Passport today. We’ve now reached our cruising altitude so I’ll turn that seatbelt sign off. <ding> While you’re getting comfortable, hit that Follow or Subscribe button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. I’d love it if you’d tell a friend about CX Passport and leave a review so that others can discover the show as well. Now, sit back and enjoy the rest of the episode.

Rick Denton: 9:15

You are speaking to my heart. I was not intending to say this during this episode. But I'll say it again. It's my usual phrase, stop survey and score start, listen and act. And it's amazing how many companies think that voice of the customer is a survey and then you celebrate a little score result at the end of that survey. And it's not it really is doing that listen and act the things that you're describing. And that this this piece of the conversation gets me to thinking about the fact that so much of what we hear in the customer experience world are these big ideas, these big initiatives, the large ideas, novel and innovative ideas. But it does seem like through these we're missing out on the basics and I see a pendulum shifting in the conversation at least online the conversation that the pendule on shifting back to that focus on the basics of customer experience and every flavor of what I mean, when I say customer experience, why do you think companies are failing on those basics? And what do you think they can do to get better?

Jeremy Watkin: 10:14

Well, I think I think it's as simple as, as putting in the time to actually do it, realizing that it's important. One thing that we we do without fail at number barn is anytime a customer. Our main survey is a customer satisfaction survey that's transactional. So it's after an interaction. And without fail, if a customer says they're dissatisfied, that ticket gets reopened. And right, now it gets assigned to me, our manager also jumps in there. So every one of those gets a response. And every one of those gets categorized. So at the end of the month, we can track what happened, but it doesn't happen all the time. But I've, you know, I've had, it's such a great opportunity to turn a customer around. That doesn't happen all the time. But what does happen all the time, if we get any sort of, you know, verbatim or response from the customer is we learn how to do something better. Yes, there are customers that are unreasonable, but they're few and far between, usually, we come away with some insight on some process that needs to be improved, or some bit of documentation that needs to be updated. Or, or maybe maybe it's a area of our product that we need to enhance, or maybe a feature we need to add. But that's it's a discipline, you know, I at our company that that amounts to maybe three to five customers, that's probably too much. Yeah, somewhere in there, though, sometimes it might be five, if we're having a bad day

Rick Denton: 11:55

really goes off the rails.

Jeremy Watkin: 11:57

But yes, somebody in your organization has to be assigned to doing that.

Rick Denton: 12:03

The i Something you said in there, and it was this. And I'm not gonna I'd have to listen to it again, to get the exact phrase. But basically, it was, you know, the way to get back the basics is just do the basics. And I think there's so much in that, that companies are wanting to go after the shiny new object, and it's sexy to do the new program. And it's it's fascinating to have a big conference room and a big, you know, new sort of focus on customer centricity or whatever, you know, pick your buzzword of the moment. And it's not all that sexy to to just open up what your customers are saying and realize, oh, my gosh, that's broken, let's just go fix that thing. Or, let's, let's offer some sort of new service or new product that is somebody that they've been clamoring for. And it all stems from Voice of the Customer, like you're describing is, what are you doing to actually listen? And then what are you doing to act on it?

Jeremy Watkin: 12:56

When you mentioned buzzwords, my my buzzword was? Wow. You know, we've seen viral stories. We've read viral stories. We've seen the the videos on YouTube, and those are great. And I've certainly chased Wow, in my in my life, but I can't tell you how often when I respond to a negative CSAT survey and say, Hey, we heard you how often the customer respondent says I was fairly certain that nobody would respond.

Rick Denton: 13:29

You know, Jeremy, that reminds me of something that I've actually experienced a couple times specific to the rental car industry that I have had, when you travel a lot, sometimes there's a negative scenario. And I will fill out the survey because my gosh, I'm a good CX guy, of course, I'm going to do that. And I will get the canned response back. Oh, thank you so much for reaching out to us. I'm the head of this management team and this location. And we've heard your concerns, and we want to do something about it. We're going to improve our process, whatever. Yeah, whatever it is. Reach out to me if you have any questions. So I reach back out to them. And I say, Hey, here's what's went wrong. Let me talk to you a little bit more about it. And they ghost me. And so I almost wonder if even just what you're describing there that response back to the customer. If it's not delivered in an authentic way, then it's just another buzzword. It's just another way to piss off a customer as opposed to what could be like you're describing a number bar in an authentic way of creating a new touch point with a customer that could actually delight them and restore their relationship to something greater.

Jeremy Watkin: 14:30

Yeah, I think and I think the focus has to be on sustainability. We have had, we have had initiatives where we had our our team like those negative C sets reopen to a team member and have them handle it but I found sometimes in the contact center people will start to take it a little bit personally when they they think they did everything they could but then they got a negative CSAT. So I pulled away from that but but I have seen companies larger operations that Did they reopened it? And, you know, they had a really customer centric team that that would say, you know, I realized maybe we didn't fully hit the hit the mark on our response. Let's, let's give it another try. And that's something I would like to revisit at some point. So it's not following on, on a couple people. And it's, yeah, that authentic authenticity is something that we can we can actually scale.

Rick Denton: 15:28

I think that's something that's good about being at a smaller company that you have that opportunity to do something smaller like that. Now, I'm thinking about mentioned, mentioned ces Question of the day. And I will talk to you about that, because that's how you and I got to know each other. It's It's such a fun and engaging way. And I sometimes ebb and flow with my engagement with it. But it's so great. And it's out there daily. Why did you start it? I'm curious about why you chose to do this, and also kind of what's the value that you get out of it, because you put a lot of work into this.

Jeremy Watkin: 15:57

Okay, so this, this might be in the weeds just a little bit. But I've been a part of some really vibrant Twitter chats in the past where it was like, you show up for an hour a week, and the moderator posts questions, and people respond to each of the questions. And they're great discussions, and also just like, a great way to meet people, other people in the industry. I was a part of one called ICMI chat that ran for five year I feel like it was like five years it was it was a good run, and just with some personnel changes that it died. And but I also realized, like one hour a week isn't always doable for certain people. So I was and and it was right around, you know, right at the start of the pandemic. And I was like, How can we stay connected? What's a good way to stay connected? And so I was like, let's just, let's try instead of a, an hour long, ICM hour long, Twitter chat every week, let's, let's try a, you know, two minute long post on CX that asks a question and encourages people to respond. So I, I, you'll see it, I record a very, very quick video, I've been told that I need to get a gimbal so that I don't make people seasick when I'm walking around. So I've tried to like, be more stationary of like,

Rick Denton: 17:31

I like you're walking, ignore the gimbal people, give you feedback the other way around, go out there wander around. But anyway,

Jeremy Watkin: 17:38

I really, I really wanted to do something where others would feel encouraged feel like, oh, I can just turn my camera on and record a response. I quickly learned that I needed to tag people. And so I actively, you know, I have a list of almost 200 People that have engaged on Twitter that I I kind of randomly tag people, depending on the subject matter. But yeah, you'll you'll see some days or clunkers. But we I'd say on average, we get between five and 10 people responding and kind of as an extension, I'm also a part of a Slack community called CX accelerator. And it's, it's been a great way to also introduce people to that community. I see x accelerator doesn't, they're not selling anything. It's just a community of CX professionals. I think there's 3000 Plus in there. And so that's kind of how I did it. I've wanted to quit a couple times. Cx Question of the day, but then I think things that give me life or when a lot of people respond. Other things would be you know, we've had other people, probably a dozen or more people step in and pitch their own questions and host and I love that and anybody listening that engages, I would love for you to if you have burning CX questions that you want to ask it's a it's a great format to ask it. And yeah, I'm certainly grateful that I met you through that, Rick.

Rick Denton: 19:08

Well, thank you, I obviously feel the same as true in reverse. And that is true listeners. If you've got an idea, Jeremy is very open to other guests. And the questions are all over the map, they obviously stay flavored in the CX arena, most of the time, sometimes they're just flat out fun. One of the things I do like about the community is it's a global one of the I in fact, it almost makes it a 24 hour response cycle because by the time we're starting to wind down, then Australia picks up and then Asia starts to pick in after that. So it it makes me think of the travel stories that you and I kind of touched on a little bit. So I don't know where we're going to go with this. But you mentioned a short term mission program was summer Hawaii, a three week trip to Australia, three weeks in Nigeria, three weeks in Bangladesh, and that's just our casual kind of discussion. I am kind of curious through the stories How has travelled changed your life perspective? And if it's influenced even the way you approach customer experience,

Jeremy Watkin: 20:07

yeah, when I, when I was thinking about this, I went back to My Australia experience and the way those trips were structured, we weren't staying in resorts, most of the time. You know, Australia is not roughing it by any stretch. Nigerian Bangladesh are roughing it if you don't have a generator to give you reliable power, but So Australia, you know, I, we actually stayed me and another guy, we stayed in a bachelor pad. We ate Weetabix and toast with Vegemite on it for breakfast in the morning. And I don't think I would have, I would have experienced that if I had stayed at whatever resort in Sydney or something like that. But I think that's what I I loved about those experiences was the chance to be in people's homes. And, you know, we played soccer we I learned, I think I forgot most of what I learn, but I learned how to play rugby a little bit while I was there. And it was very, and I was there right around the Sydney Olympic Games. And we did get to like see some of that a little bit. But But really, we got to just get to know the locals. And I think every one of my trips has been like that where I got to meet the locals got to eat the food. So Nigeria and Bangladesh, when I think about those places, like I did stay a couple places that had generators. But then I was at other places where like, the power will go off. At some point the middle of the night the fan stops working. The mosquitoes start buzzing in your ear. Yeah, like Is this the time where I hope my malaria medication kicks in, but but applied to CX, like, there's just a strong theme of learning how to walk in other people's shoes. It just you develop empathy for people and realize like, you can't always get that unless you actually share a meal with somebody. Yeah. And so I think that I think that's the most valuable CX lesson I got from that.

Rick Denton: 22:30

Clearly, if you're having to experience mosquitoes buzzing around your ears, wondering if your malaria medicine is working, staying in bachelor pads, yes, I totally am with you. Some of my best experiences are exactly that when it's backpacking. And you're totally immersed in the in the culture and going at travel that way. But it can also be nice to take a break. So please join me here in the first class lounge, enjoy a little break. We'll move quickly here and hopefully have a little bit of fun. What is a dream travel location from your past?

Jeremy Watkin: 23:01

Well, my wife and I got to go to Italy, I think in 2010. And if I could do it again, we hiked the cheek Matera along the Italian Riviera. And we did that in a day. And I really wish we had done it in a week because I would have I did a lot of walking on that trip and would have liked to do a little bit more just eating and hanging out.

Rick Denton: 23:27

That's the reason why you do all the walking is so that then you can enjoy the eating and everything that goes with that burn all that off between those towns. Oh, that's a beautiful place. I'm glad you got to do that. Looking forward. What is a dream travel location you've not been to yet.

Jeremy Watkin: 23:42

Okay. It definitely revolves around fly fishing. So I thought about Alaska. I thought about New Zealand, but then I landed on Patagonia. I've seen a few documentaries there. Would love to hike and catch some Jai brown trout.

Rick Denton: 23:59

I really want to go there. I said that to a lot of guests. And I actually mean it every time they talk about a place that I haven't been. There's something about Patagonia that really is capturing. I think it's the openness, the remoteness, the what I perceive to be peace and tranquility there. I hope that you do get that chance to do some fly fishing there. I bet it'll be amazing. Yeah. You mentioned how you don't really connect with a culture unless you sit down and have a meal with someone. So what's your favorite thing to eat?

Jeremy Watkin: 24:29

I'd say it's a it's a it's really a tie between Thai food and sushi. I love those genres a whole lot. And I'm the only person in my family. One of my kids does but yeah, so if I'm on my own, that's where I'm gonna go. You're heading over there.

Rick Denton: 24:45

Thankfully, I've got sushi lovers in my family. And the tie though it tends to be more me than others, but it is. It is nice when you got that chance. You're like, Okay, I'm by myself. I'm gonna go get that now. On the other side. What is the thing your parents forced you to eat but you hated as a kid.

Jeremy Watkin: 25:03

Okay, oddly enough, it's still in kind of the Asian genre. water chestnuts my mom had a major, a major stir fry phase at one point in my life and I've made peace with them since then though.

Rick Denton: 25:18

Jeremy, you're the only other person I know actually my daughter she's kind of like me we're I just don't like him that much. Now it's not that I would refuse to eat him as a kid or anything like that. But I always just never really understood the appeal of water chestnuts so you and I one more reason that we like each other so Alright, you've done all these travels what is one travel item not including your phone that you will not leave home without?

Jeremy Watkin: 25:42

Okay, back to fly fishing. I love my six piece backpacking fly rod and I I'm committed to more and more taking that with me and figuring out where I can fish and seeing you know, what, what fish are there that are to be caught?

Rick Denton: 26:02

Man, I love that idea of just having your rod with you, as you travel that does sound just dies out, you know, hey, I don't want a business trip, I'm gonna see what I might be able to pull out of the water. That's great. Let's actually go back to that work world. I did have a former CX passport guest, Jim tincher. Talk to me about their customer experience leaders that he interviewed that never talked with customers. And you talked earlier in the show about how you saw it as your role to engage directly with customers. And I love that I love that getting directly in touch with the customers. What have you gotten out of that? How does staying in tune with the customer in touch with them at that layer, really help you ultimately create a great experience.

Jeremy Watkin: 26:43

Okay, so for somebody that grew up in the contact center, doing customer support, epic, we all let's just acknowledge that we all fantasize about never having to talk to customers again. But the really hard part about that is it's it's, it's really difficult to know what they're saying, if you're not talking to money, how that works. That sounds that sounds too simple.

Rick Denton: 27:08

But Jeremy, it is too simple. And yet it's the reality of companies. So you're totally right.

Jeremy Watkin: 27:13

Hey, yeah, and I think the balance that I've, that I I'm getting better at now that I'm in my like, starting my third decade. And this This work is, you know, when I worked in the contact center, I talked to customers all day, every day. So if if a customer has a problem, and I can't solve it, I'm I'm lighting the office on fire trying to solve their issue. The balance that I've had to learn, as I you know, move more, more in to CX and out of just customer support is the ability to step back and look for trends pull threads, like if one customer is having this issue, how can I get my whole team to talk? How can I? How can I plumb our all of our interactions and figure out how often customers are saying it so I can then prioritize? And yeah, and, and, and state my case for for the folks that aren't in CX that are that are in other areas of the company that I need to actually do stuff to fix the issue?

Rick Denton: 28:19

You find that? Because you're talking directly with the customers? Does it make it easier? I feel like I'm setting you up with this answer. I should ask it more neutrally. But do you find it easier then to then communicate that to your wider company audience that it's not Jeremy speaking, but rather customers said X?

Jeremy Watkin: 28:38

Yeah, I mean, it definitely helps with the, you know, it's tempting sometimes to come in with too many numbers. And it definitely helps a balance to have the, you know, it's that weird balance. It's, it's how do you come in with enough numbers and enough of the story so they can feel what the customer feels but also see that it's having an impact on our bottom line? Or could have a positive impact on the bottom line? That's right, you're right about it. I go negative too quickly, sometimes,

Rick Denton: 29:08

well, but then we get it tends to be in a lot of our business mentality at times, especially in the customer experience type world, you know, oh, something broke? Well, no, something was really delightful. Let's repeat and amplify that as another part. And you also said something really vital. And that is, you know, what are the what's the bottom line, it's great if we're creating wonderful experiences, but they have to impact the bottom line. And those of us in the CX world, believe that and and see it in reality, not just some faith based belief, but actually truly have seen examples where by focusing on customer experience, real business, tangible business results show up. And I mean, I think I think we've seen that conversation in the CX Question of the day. And so as I'm looking at the clock, realizing we're kind of coming to the end of our time here. I want to close out with C A Question of the day, and I've got to imagine that you've heard all sorts of things you You're paying attention on a daily basis. So you've gotten your customer experience wisdom, you've gotten your story, you got some some comedy. What's one nugget that you've gained from CX Question of the day that you'd want the listeners to know, it could be wise, it could be strange could just simply be intriguing.

Jeremy Watkin: 30:18

So, so I mentioned that ICMI chat that I was a part of, and ICMI, as they talked about CX, but they're very contact center. Right. And, you know, my background is very contact center. And, and I think, when I think about CX Question of the day, I as I, as I start putting the CX hashtag out there, instead of context center, I realized I'm starting to talk to marketing and HR and, and people from product, people who care about the user experience. Engineers, all these people in all different areas of the company and organization that all care about CX and realizing that, you know, I've known customer service is just one piece of the CX pie, but CX Question of the Day has really helped me to hear from those perspectives, and you know, understand, like, at the end of the day, how can I better influence our marketing team at number barn? I can interact, and understand how some of those folks are thinking what they're concerned about what metrics they want to see what, that just helps me do my job better. And that's, you know, it's it's more CX question that day is more about learning than it is about clicks and likes and all that.

Rick Denton: 31:40

Yeah. And I think it comes through like, and I'm not just blowing sunshine up your fanny here, I think it comes through and when you look at it, that it does seem to be an authentic discussion of and sharing of ideas there. And I can really appreciate what you answered there. And that it's the it's not so much a specific nugget that was learned, but rather, the awareness that customer experiences this larger entity, it too often we try to slice and dice it into all these tribes of CX and what does that look like, but ultimately, the customer didn't care. It's their experience that they're receiving. And the idea of figuring out how to work it all together is highly valuable. And I agree with you that that's something that I've seen out of that CX question today, though, if folks want to learn more about you, if folks want to learn more about CX Question of the day or learn more about number barn, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Jeremy Watkin: 32:30

Yeah, so definitely check out numberbarn.com Follow me on Twitter at JT Watkins or connect with me on Twitter. I'm not looking for followers. I'm looking for people to connect. I like that. Okay, same with LinkedIn. I do blog also on customer service. life.com. Probably not as regularly as I'm kind of viewing CX Question of the day is more of a microblogs. My long form writing has suffered just a little bit. But

Rick Denton: 33:03

Well, Jeremy, I'm gonna get all of that in the notes. But I chuckle with you because I feel the same way that I used to post more actively on LinkedIn. But then I realized that CX passport has become sort of my conversation with the CX world. And selfishly I get learning out of it each time so I'm enjoying the heck out of it. Jeremy, it's been wonderful talking with you today. Great discussion around customer experience. Again, listeners go out there and and start to engage with hashtag CXQOTD on LinkedIn, at LinkedIn on Twitter, and and have that connection with Jeremy, thank you today. It was a delight talking with you.

Jeremy Watkin: 33:38

Thank you so much Rick

Rick Denton: 33:43

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. Make sure to visit our website cxpassport.com where you can hit subscribe so you'll never miss a show. While you're at it, you can check out the rest of the EX4CX website. If you're looking to get real about customer experience, EX4CX is available to help you increase revenue by starting to listen to your customers and create great experiences for every customer every time. Thanks for listening to CX Passport and be sure to tune in for our next episode. Until next time, I'm Rick Denton, and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.