Rick Denton: 0:05

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode we’ll talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. Listeners, I have about 70 different ideas on how to introduce today's guest, Anastasia Vladychynska from Kyiv. Ukraine. Do I start with her deep passion for customer experience launching a customer experience revolution in a country that didn't even have a word in their language for serve? Do I focus on our global experience and insights? Maybe focused on our consulting company? How do I do any of this when the first thing I think of now is my goodness you are living in a war not a metaphorical war a literal war we're Anastasia's country was invaded and active military activity continues daily. Why on earth would we talk about customer experience? Yet? That's exactly what Anastasia highlights even in a war Customer Experience matters. I'm shocked but I can't wait to hear what she has to say about that. If CX matters in a war then you know, it matters to you and your company hopefully not emerged in global conflict in parallel helping individuals fleeing Ukraine with accommodations, jobs and support. Anastasia is a certified customer experience consultant, founder of Vladychynska consulting and MBA professor. She helps top tier brands keep their customers during reinventing their employee and customer experience so they can disrupt their industries Anastasia's customers generate an average of 20 to 30% more profit after implementing her simple methodology, you will take away key wisdom nuggets today around customer experience. I have faded but wonderful memories of I one trip to Kyiv back in 1990. Yeah, back in 1990. I know a long time ago, but I still remember it. I remember the beauty of the city, the culture the people, I want to hear more about Ukraine from Anastasia later in the show. Anastasia and I met during one of Jonathan Daniels CX centric conversations, I always admired how those purposely brought customer experience people together from across the globe to share their perspectives. Let's continue that today enjoying learning from a truly global perspective. Anastasia, welcome to CX Passport.

Anastasia Vladychynska: 2:32

Thank you, Rick.

Rick Denton: 2:34

I can't believe that I'm starting with this. Like, I just never thought we would do this in a conversation on a podcast of CX passport. And I'm sure you can't believe we live in a world and you specifically live in a country where this question needs to be asked with what is tragically happening in Ukraine? Does customer experience even matter when you're in the middle of a war?

Anastasia Vladychynska: 2:56

That's such a good question. And actually asked it yesterday, I keep asking it. My clients are still in Ukraine and operating. Because I mean, to be frank with you, as much as I've always believed in, and I talk more about service as a, you know, bigger war than customer experience or employee experience. Right. So I've always, you know, as much as I've been always this huge fan of service, customer experience employee experience. When the worst started, I seriously was afraid to ask my clients like what, you know, what am I a client experience? What about employee experience? You know, because these are, let's be frank, when the warheads these are you think these are not the most important things, right? The most important thing is, how do you keep your team? How do you get them out of pots, places, hot sitters, and you take them somewhere where they can be safe, or if you're in a shelter? And because many companies in Ukraine are working from bomb shelters today, okay. And they're still continuing. That's the thing about Ukrainians like they never stopped. Okay. So when you were in a, in a bomb shelter, like do you think about buying experience? Do you even care about how you talk to your clients?

Rick Denton: 4:17

That's why I'm asking I just shocked that we're having this conversation. Oh my gosh,

Anastasia Vladychynska: 4:21

yeah. And we talked about my experience all the time on those beautiful conferences, having a glass of champagne and oysters. But you talk about it. And to my huge surprise, like clients, were telling me Anastasia employee experience is another just put it differently, the culture of the service service culture that we have created inside and outside the organization. That is the only thing that is actually helping us to still work and sell and continue to operate. And then if you think why is it happening because during a war and then war is a crisis right here crisis, but it is a crisis. So an crisis is usually a crash test for everything in your company, like for all your beautiful speeches for all your beautiful declared values? People are either going to stay with you or not. There is no choice. Yeah, I mean, there is a choice, there is a choice is everything becomes black and white. And your employees either stick with you, or they just leave because they, you know, many CEOs in the beginning of the war, many CEOs could not even tell their employees whether they will be able to pay their salaries or not. Right. So, so they came up and frankly said it, guys, we don't even know, like, we know, we can give you this month, but we don't know what's going to happen next month. Okay. And for many companies, especially those that have had a Focus On Service, Employee service client service, you know, in their employees that were going to stay with you no matter what, and we're going to save this company, like I mean, wasn't just because they were concentrated on digital customer experience. Now, can you feel it's much deeper? It's like, are you value based or you're not? Even yesterday, there was this electronics retailer, I think they have around 10,000 employees in Ukraine. And because of electricity outages, many retailers are working now with the help of generators, sometimes even generators non help. So they have clients are coming to your story, you're actually using your phone for your iPhone, as a lie, right? Like to show the products can you imagine?

Rick Denton: 6:38

And I saw that you shared that on LinkedIn. And I'm just sitting there shocked by this the spirit of resilience that exists this example and what you said there really resonates with me. And that is, you know, people, let's take ourselves out of the warzone for a second here. Oh, yeah. So we had a crisis that was our downturn of 3% are our customers are leaving or something like that? You're talking about the real crisis, you're talking about? Can we pay you can do we exist as a company? Do we exist as as isn't a country, right? Does all those things come crashing in together? And it definitely shows those true values. And what I like, though, is that you then highlighted how, yeah, it shows their values. But those values had impact in companies that had that and demonstrated that ongoing, then they retain their employees, they retain their customers, even if they're using an iPhone to go around. How do you think that let's take those lessons out of Ukraine? Right? So how do you use these lessons? For those of us not in a war zone? How can we quote war proof our company by the lessons you're learning?

Anastasia Vladychynska: 7:45

Yeah. I'd say number one start start was improving your culture SAP? And I know culture is a huge word. And, you know, what do you mean by culture, and all of that. And I'm doing lots of research right now for myself, because I want to know how culture really influences people's behaviors. And I do believe that customer experience customer service is born from the culture. And I see it in different different countries and companies. So what I mean, by creating a culture, I mean, creating relationships, like real relationships with your employees and clients. And I know that so many businesses didn't pay attention to the relationships, they pay attention to profits and, and margins and all of that now, in my experience, profits and margins come even better after you pay attention to relationships with employees, and clients, right. And vendors, by the way, employees, clients, vendors, it's not just it's not just employees and clients. So I had a major insights. So this is surely helpful for anybody, you know, any anybody in the world? If you think about this, if you think, you know, God forbid, tomorrow, you wake up and you lose everything, like you lose your bank account, you lose your house, you lose your friends in this you it was everything, okay? And if you ask yourself, What's going to stay to still stay? Okay. And this is a good test to see, do you have a support system in your life, which could be compound of your employees of your clients, and your vendors are going to support you and Megan, like, weave this net for you no matter what, and become like a trampoline for you to bounce back. Okay. Because that's what I saw from from companies in Ukraine, you know, when they lost everything, the ones who could still survive. Were those who had great relationships with their employees, clients and vendors, because at that time, you the same as the vendor, you don't even know where When you're going to pay your vendors so you say, I'm so sorry, can we have your, you know, your services or your products that we have to sell in our stores. And we, by the way, we don't know when we can pay you back. And if you have those relationships, they will give you the products and the goods. If you don't, they will say, you know, whatever.

Your CX Passport Captain: 10:18

This is your captain speaking. I want to thank you for listening to CX Passport today. We’ve now reached our cruising altitude so I’ll turn that seatbelt sign off. <ding> While you’re getting comfortable, hit that Follow or Subscribe button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. I’d love it if you’d tell a friend about CX Passport and leave a review so that others can discover the show as well. Now, sit back and enjoy the rest of the episode.

Rick Denton: 10:44

I like that focus on relationship. And I really liked the fact that you brought the vendor into this story comes down to relationship that you're describing there as a way of waterproofing that how what is it about maybe Ukrainian businesses or just in general that you're seeing? How are they said differently? How did they create those relationships? So that right now in the midst of a war, they're able to continue on in spite of this just tragic war taking place? How did those relationships get manifested?

Anastasia Vladychynska: 11:14

Yeah, that's a very good question. I'd say that relationship was a wonder is manifest number one where it is manifest that as in the contract, you're signing with them? Okay. So many times, we've all been there as vendors as partners, when we get a contract, and the contract is, it shows like liability that you're liable to the suppliers liability, which is like 300 pages, and then the company's liabilities, just one page. And then they have all defines everything. Okay, so I think it starts was the respect was the mutual respect. So yes, as a company, we want better price, you know, from our suppliers. That's fine. But we at the same time, we don't want such a good price, that the supplier then closes their business, just because they gave us such a good price. And now they cannot, cannot operate. Okay. So I'd say that it starts was just was the respecting other person. And you'd be amazed how many people do not have respected other person. And believing that, you know, we are helping each other. And there's so many companies that would not be able to continue their businesses if their suppliers stop supplying. So I think that we're now in the economy when we have to, to be respectful of the suppliers interests as well. Because there are still those companies that even talk to you, you know, they're even even the way of communicating is kind of like, you know, you have to prove to us that you're, you know, we can we can give you the money so that you can supply it to us. Do you know what I mean?

Rick Denton: 12:52

Absolutely do know what you mean there and the, what I'm hearing, there's this fundamentally a spirit of respect, right? There's tactile things, and there's lawyers, and there's things that have to be done. But if you're starting from that spirit of respect, and not a How can I win? And I think, you know, especially when times are good, we as humans, we as teams, we as companies tend to forget that the times can be bad. And so there can be this, I'm going to try to get as much as possible, I'm going to win as much as possible, as opposed to that relationship. And having that relationship is how you were proof your company and has been a part of that resilience. I want to go back to talking about some of that resilience, especially it's demonstrated that we talked about the iPhone one, but I'm curious, what are some of those best stories that you know, right now, in the midst of the war, that you're seeing in Ukraine have that business resilience, that customer experience resilience? And why is it that Ukrainian businesses are so resilient? I think some might just fall apart, but for some reason, we're seeing you keep going there.

Anastasia Vladychynska: 13:53

Yeah, I think the main reason why businesses are so resilient. There will be probably two so number one is it's very unfair that we are invaded, we have not done anything bad to the other country. So it's almost like we want to show you that we're going to survive no matter what.

Rick Denton: 14:11

Okay. Oh, I like that. Okay, sort of, I'm gonna stick it to you because this was wrong. Okay. All right.

Anastasia Vladychynska: 14:16

Exactly. Exactly. And you can see so many of my of my clients are posting pictures of like, once your yesterday she posted a picture. She didn't have, she didn't have electricity, so she wasn't able to use a hairdryer. So she gets into the car. And she puts on the heating in the car and the ventilation and that's what my gosh, on the way to work. She's like, you know, whatever, I'm gonna just do this. So, but also business resilience in Ukraine has been born from the fact that we have never been helped from the government. Okay, that's huge. I think that's a huge so Ukrainian government only was the new president. He made several steps to help businesses before that, you know, it was all the pro Russian government. We never had So we never rely on anybody else than on ourselves. Okay? So that's why we've been always like this, you work, you work, you work, you work. And that's how you get what you have. And not because somebody will give you any money during COVID. So I think that the two things number one, it's very unfair even we want to show that we will survive, still survive, and there's no way you're, you know, invading our businesses and our country. At the same time, we have, we have learned already that, you know, everything comes just from your own effort.

Rick Denton: 15:30

Yeah. I, I like that resilience. And I love the the idea, I mean, I'm sure there are 1000s of examples that are as practical as that of, you know, I don't have electricity, so I'm going to dry my hair or whatever that is,

Anastasia Vladychynska: 15:43

exactly. And talk about employee experience. Yesterday, I was talking to one of our clients, so they have rented a space. And they are installing showers so that employees could come and take shower, whenever they need. Just one shower, like some offices would have one or two. Now they need like many, because in your homes, you You never know if you're going to have water or or electricity. So now they're making this, that's employee experience.

Rick Denton: 16:10

I liked it this, this idea of company and employees sort of relationship working together to get through this absolutely tragic war that's taking place. I want to, I want to change kind of the tone a little bit here, and certainly can't ignore the tragedy that's taking place. But I mentioned that I was there in Kyiv, back in 1990. And I do, it's been so long, the pictures are actually even kind of fading if you can believe it. But I still remember how beautiful that city was, I still remember how friendly the people were that it was just a fascinating place and culture. So I want to just stop down. And would you just share a little bit about key for Ukraine as a whole, especially thinking of it through a travel lens?

Anastasia Vladychynska: 16:54

Yeah, I think there's a huge misconception of Ukraine in the world, where at least that was before, you know, the exposure. Many people think that Ukraine is a super poor country, and it had nothing. So when it was invaded, these guys really have nothing to lose, okay. And I would like to as you just thank you for bringing this up. Because not only it is beautiful, architecture, really wise, artsy wise, you know, nature wise, at the same time, and I'm telling this to everybody, my clients are driving Tesla cars. They live in beautiful houses, businesses are very developing super fast, because, again, you know, we, as a nation, we know that we have to develop fast like we don't, we don't have a choice. It is very well developed than I teach at the business school in Kyiv. You'd be amazed how packed the programs are. They're just even though during the war, they're packed, because this, this, this willingness, you know, to educate yourself to move forward, and to never stop. Whereas in some other countries was good economies and the countries have never had a World War, like yours years, or 10s of years ago, you know, or 100 years ago, there is some kind of contentment, as I'd say, which is influencing the businesses as our businesses have stopped developing in many countries, just because you know why?

Rick Denton: 18:23

I love hearing that spirit of innovation, that spirit of, well, nothing else is going to happen. So we've got to do it ourselves. I want to ask you a little bit about just traveling around the country. Talk to me about someone, God willing, we will be out of this this conflict sooner than later and it will be done. And Ukraine will be a place that people will have the opportunity to go to tell me what you would want to tell someone who's traveling to Ukraine. What should they see? What should they expect to experience? What would that be? Like?

Anastasia Vladychynska: 18:53

I'd say number one, you know, go to different restaurants.

Rick Denton: 18:58

Yay. All right. You've got my heart now, food,

Anastasia Vladychynska: 19:03

a variety of all kinds of restaurants. And again, remember Ukrainians want the best. So the restaurants like you can get all kinds of interior design that you want. And then Ukrainian prints are very picky. Oh well like that's okay. Usually very picky because I mean, we've had all kinds of restaurants, all kinds of hotels, all kinds of so restaurants number one and then service I have to say it 20 years ago, it wasn't like this but now servicing Ukrainian restaurants is like 10 levels up then in London for example number two, as funny as it might sound, but yeah, go and see your dentist in Ukraine. Go and use private medicine. It is so much better than what I see here in the EU and in London as well. Okay. So and then of course, you know, go try Carpathian Mountains go to the seaside. We I think that you People will be amazed at how developed Ukraine is right now compared to when you were there.

Rick Denton: 20:12

Anastasia, I mentioned New Mexico I mentioned London and that's only just a sampling of where you found yourself traveling. I know that travel can wear a person out. So I want to invite you to take a little break here. Let's join me here in the first class lounge we'll move quickly here and hopefully have a little bit of fun what is a dream travel location from your past?

Anastasia Vladychynska: 20:31

My past? Definitely Thailand. Oh,

Rick Denton: 20:35

yes. Yes. Why Thailand?

Anastasia Vladychynska: 20:38

I love the simplicity of life there. You just have your flip flops, your shorts and a T shirt. You have amazing food you have smiley people. You have a very interesting service which is not based on standards. You know, there are almost no standards and customer service over there. But people are so nice a smile and smiley that you forgive them that don't have any standard and you still love them.

Rick Denton: 21:08

I love Thailand that's a I liked the what you said about the simplicity you don't hear that but you're right that simplicity of light there is very is very one it was beautiful. It's complex. It's It's modern, it's not anti modern or anything. It's just very simple at times I like that what is a dream travel location? You've not been to yet India for sure. What about India has you wanting to get there

Anastasia Vladychynska: 21:31

I'm crazy about all kinds of cultures and again how culture influences the the customer service and client experience. And I'm just just mesmerized by the colors by the flavors and by by the culture and just very, very very vivid to me.

Rick Denton: 21:50

I like that. Now you've mentioned flavors you mentioned foods so we're gonna go there what is a favorite thing of yours to eat

Anastasia Vladychynska: 22:01

it's just super simple there okay, it was one of my birthday is my husband was like Okay, so where would you like me to take you you can pick whatever you can pick you know, Michelin, no Michelin, whatever we can pick whatever and I said there and I said can I still have a mess? My favorite mashed potatoes

Rick Denton: 22:21

I love it. Comfort food wins the day again. I love asking this question because it gets almost universally go to the comfort food and I love that those mashed potatoes spectacular Yeah, sure sure. But yeah mesh money this isn't it? I love it. On the other side. What is the thing your parents forced you to eat what you hated as a kid?

Anastasia Vladychynska: 22:45

Okay, there's a certain type of porridge and I don't even know how to say it in English seriously, but it's a certain type of porridge when you're a kid in in in Eastern Europe your parents make you eat it and just horrible

Rick Denton: 23:00

don't so don't worry about it in English say it and what is it? Says MONICA I will if I can I'll put it in the show notes if you want to see what this food is the torture what is one travel item not including your phone that you will not leave home without

Anastasia Vladychynska: 23:19

Oh earplugs. Oh should I can't noise is just stresses me out so bad. It's so bad like I cannot even on a train. People please please please switch off your phone switch. Switch off your music. Please!

Rick Denton: 23:41

Anastasia beyond Ukraine conversation you're well known for speaking truth to customer experience. When when you and I first talked. You said something that hit my ears and in a interesting way. Stop doing CX until you change your company. How should companies use that advice?

Anastasia Vladychynska: 24:02

Okay, that's a tough one. And yeah, I'm afraid to be hated by many CX people like Yeah.

Rick Denton: 24:11

I don't mind having people that say controversial things. Like one of the titles was the one with the CX controversy. so fire away. It's all yours.

Anastasia Vladychynska: 24:19

Yeah, so, so many times. And I work with big brands and sometimes was smaller brands, but most was vague. And sometimes big brands come up to you and say, Anastasia, we need to change our customer experience we need to improve our customer experience. And a quick answer to this would be like, yeah, oh my goodness. Finally, you know, let's do this. Here's the here's the contract you know, the zeros zeros in 000. A big number contract but at the same time, usually customer experience The result of the customer experience you guys are having right now is a combination or a consequence of everything going on inside the company. Okay? I always say that clients only and frontline people hate calling them frontline. So they just say no first line of people, they only mirror what's inside the organization, okay to your clients. So, so many times a good desire to improve your client experience is just a good desire, because the truth there is, go back to C. And I always say, go back to see what your leaders believe. And this could be a very frank conversation, sometimes I recommend this, go up to your leaders go up to your top management, your CEO and ask them what do you believe in terms of our clients and employees? What are your beliefs? Like, tell me what you like, frankly, I know, this is not an easy conversation. I know, nobody will probably tell you straight away. So it has to be deeper methodology, you know, to take out the stuff from them. But so many times when you talk deeply and you ask deeper questions, leaders will tell you, you know what, frankly, like our clients, I believe that our clients are we have bad clients, or clients always want to take advantage of us. Oh, and as as you just don't know, our clients, which to that I always say, here's the truth, guys, from my experience, a company has the kind of clients it deserves, I can repeat it, a company has the kind of clients it disrupts. Like that. I mean, really, okay. And then when a company changes, by the way, when they change from the inside, they change what the top management believes in, in respect to the employees and clients. And then they not only change it in their belief system, but they also change it in their actions. And then in everything connected was employee experience and client experience, operationally wise, then miraculously, they happen to have better clients.

Rick Denton: 27:09

Funny how that works. Yes.

Anastasia Vladychynska: 27:10

Oh, funny. Because it's saying people have a BS meter, right. So employees have a BS meter installed, and especially younger employees right now. And then clients the same, we all have a BS meter, we feel and we know when we are just, you know, not feeling well. But everything is just a conversation or so go up to your top management and talk to them. You know, what do you believe in so many managers leaders will tell me all these new employees, I don't know a thing, they don't want to stay. If they believe this, you guys will never have a good culture. Okay. So there should be something deeper than that's why I say go back to your culture. Go back to your values. Okay. And because some companies have like, 12 1315 values on their website, not doable at all right. Hey, do you have a mission statement? Oh, yeah. What is it? It's on our website. We want live, we have all been there. And I don't want to be you know, repeating stuff, which is so much a cliche right now. But I talk about a company transforming your company to become a truly service company. Okay. Sounds weird. But that's exactly what I mean. Are you truly service company to employees, a truly service company? You do leaders really believe that that's what you have to be okay. Or are they only Alliant there's a difference between alignment and commitment. Right? Yes. So that's why you know, we always saw was a leadership team. And it was the cultural conversation and values conversation to me, client experience down without that work. Without that huge bad inside work that just money wasted,

Rick Denton: 28:51

I think I want to end on that, Anastasia, I want to end on that, that that true service organization, that idea that values drive this. And I know a lot of that is like you said lip service. But let's go. Let's mentally go back to something you said earlier in the podcast. And we're talking about how the tragic war in Ukraine exposed whether companies actually believe this. And so, listeners while I hope that you aren't in the midst of a war torn experience, but the lesson there that Anastasia just shared of your values will be exposed in the midst of a crisis and your values are what drive fundamentally your approach to employee experience and the delivery of customer experience. Let's end there. What a great conversation today. Anastasia, thank you for carving out the time, in the midst of all you're doing. You know, my heart goes out to you and all of those in Ukraine associated the Ukraine and I pray that this tragedy ends soon. If folks want to get in touch with you to learn more about you learn about your customer experience approach. Maybe if they have a heart for helping those involved in Ukraine, how can they get in touch with you to learn more?

Anastasia Vladychynska: 29:59

Yeah, I think the best way is to drop a link because my second name is almost not pronounceable, and it's hard. So I think that'll be the best thing. But yeah, Facebook is the best LinkedIn, whatever. And yeah, please do reach out if you have any questions because some people reach out to me ask me how can I help Ukraine? And I'll be more than you know how happy to share to share some contracts with you and charity. So go,

Rick Denton: 30:27

I will get all those. I will get the LinkedIn and a Facebook link put into the show notes. You don't have to look it up. Just scroll down. It's right there. And your name is not that hard Anastasia Vladychynska. Come on. People can get it right.

Anastasia Vladychynska: 30:39

So yeah, talk to Rick.

Rick Denton: 30:42

Trade. If you need come to me first. But no, you can reach directly out to Anastasia. Anastasia, thank you so much for today. I appreciate you carving out the time to talk to me. I learned a ton. My heart is opened and broken a bit hearing the stories but it's also incredibly encouraged hearing the stories as well. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Anastasia Vladychynska: 31:00

Thank you, Rick.

Rick Denton: 31:05

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. Make sure to visit our website cxpassport.com where you can hit subscribe so you'll never miss a show. While you're at it, you can check out the rest of the EX4CX website. If you're looking to get real about customer experience, EX4CX is available to help you increase revenue by starting to listen to your customers and create great experiences for every customer every time. Thanks for listening to CX Passport and be sure to tune in for our next episode. Until next time, I'm Rick Denton, and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.