Eli Weiss: 0:00

At its core, our job as CX leaders is to sell this premise of customer experience will make or break your business to the people that are paying the bills.

Rick Denton: 0:16

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode we’ll talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. Direct to consumer or DTC. When you're focused on that business model, you are the customer experience, no retailer in the middle, just you the product and the customer. All right, clearly, much more goes into a DTC model than just that. But at its core, this is a very pure expression of customer experience, get it right. Customers return spend more tell their friends, get it wrong and the customer finds you easily discardable as they move to the next option providing a better experience. Today's guest, Eli Weiss knows that world lives that world thrives in that world as the senior director of customer experience and retention at Jones road beauty carrying his personal mantra, building brands that put the customer first. Now, we've heard people talk about that before. I'm eager to hear how Eli delivers beyond that talk, and what putting the customer truly first looks like with a set of experiences at multiple brands. Eli knows what works and what doesn't work in the world of customer experience for DTC. And really, for companies in general. You know, I think just about every American teenager has fantasized about a road trip like this, but would you would you drive cross country from New York to Los Angeles when you're 16. That's the kind of unique background that came to the forefront when Eli and I first met from a first credit card at 18 to 1.5 million miles two years later, Eli has a love for travel that is only matched by his love for the customer. Sounds like a perfect match for this show. Eli, welcome to CX passport.

Eli Weiss: 2:24

Thanks so much for having me, Rick. I'm excited to chat all things CX and travel. Yeah,

Rick Denton: 2:30

what perfect show for where you are in the right place today. Let's start by something you mentioned to me when we were first getting to know each other and you said that customer experience CX is having a renaissance? Now, tell me what you mean by that?

Eli Weiss: 2:44

Yeah, I mean, I think I think about this pretty often that customer experience has gone through a couple of shifts in the last probably 2020 ish years. You know, customer experiences a title is kind of it's kind of flashy. Now, I wouldn't say it's sexy yet, but we're definitely having a moment where customer experiences is a hot roll. I think if we look back kind of 1015 20 ish years, customer support was always the kind of thing that was looked at as reactive, it was always the kind of thing that if you dealt with, where's my order tickets and calls, that was what support looked like, it was always kind of the bottom of the barrel, the job that was paid the least the job that was easily kind of like handed off. And I think we've seen the last, you know, if I think about the early, the early 2000s, we saw kind of like Zappos and chewy and all these kind of like DTC, big the big boys, you know, come in and create a space where customers were put on a pedestal and you know, the Zappos stories and the chewy stories about taking care of customers. That's really what is now almost the bare minimum. We've seen businesses take a huge stance on experience, and turn it into a more proactive part of the business. I think we're seeing Chief Experience officers more now than we saw in decades. And I'm here to talk more about that. But I think customer experience is a role is is more on the forefront now than it's been in decades.

Rick Denton: 4:12

It Clear clearly, you're talking to someone whose bias to believe aligned with you. They're right. But I've made my entire career on customer experience. That's what my consulting firm is. It's all about improving customer experience and helping those that are either leaders in the CX space get better or those that need to become leaders in the CX space. But I'm curious about when you had introduced that Renaissance topic to me, one of the things that came to my mind was, I think the vast majority of folks would say that, you know, customer experience or customer service, or any of those categories. really not all that great right now we hear more about how bad things are. And so if we're experiencing this great Renaissance, why is it that horrible customer experience bad customer service and customer experience teams getting whacked at the first hint of a recession? How do you balance that Renaissance with what we're experiencing in that world today?

Eli Weiss: 5:06

I think the last six or seven years with iOS 14, and just the change of of Process on the growth side of the business has seen businesses go from this Facebook arbitrage where you put in $5 and get 25. to now focus on on profitability and sustainability. We've seen, you know, the looming recession be a big point here, where businesses decided it's not all about, you know, can I acquire a customer for 10 that I'll purchase for, for 40? Right now, now businesses are, you know, most of them are breaking even some of them are losing money on first purchase, and they're focused on profitability and returning customer revenue. Customer, you know, returning customer revenue, at its core is creating an experience where it's exciting enough for people to come back, you know, I see a lot of confusion around what makes a customer return brands. As an example, if you sell toothpaste, you're very convinced that the customer didn't return because you didn't send them enough emails, or you didn't send them enough texts. And the reality is that if they stopped using your $8 toothpaste, it's not because they're not brushing their teeth. It's because they're using something that's cheaper and better. And brands are realizing that retention, as a whole is more important than it ever was now, not to say, you know, a business without growth is not going to stay alive. But growth at all costs. And leaving retention on the side is a silly misnomer. Now. How does retention and customer experience collide? I think that's, you know, part of my career has been proving that that's a thing. And we're seeing more and more of that. But at its core retention is customer having his ex having his or her expectations met, and being excited enough about the experience to come back. It's not that complex.

Your CX Passport Captain: 6:45

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Rick Denton: 7:11

Definitely not all that complex. And that's why I'm still befuddled, I asked us a lot of guests honestly is why is it still so jacked up? Because it seems like it shouldn't be that complex. Let me take your toothpaste example for a bit right, you're right about the cheaper or the better experience. But let's say I squeezed my toothpaste in the tube burst like there was some failure in the manufacturing of the tube itself. And so I want to contact the brand to get some sort of restitution or even just express the frustration. And that's where it seems to fall apart. Whether it's a toothpaste conversation, or an airline cancellation, or some disappointment with a meal or other elements of customer service side of customer experience. That's the part that it seems like we're we're losing there. And when you talk about retention, a lot of it seems embedded in that part of the transaction. Not in addition to not in replacement of but in addition to the excitement and the great delivery of brand experience. It's also the delivery of basic customer service. At its

Eli Weiss: 8:08

core, our job as CX leaders is to sell this premise of customer experience will make or break your business to the people that are paying the bills. I think a lot of people get it twisted, where you know, they stand here in their CX corner and say, oh shit, our jobs are getting cut or OSHA AI is coming to take over the world. And what they don't realize is that you have to sell this premise the premise that you believe in the premise that gave you a career in customer experience if you're not selling that to the team. And what that means is showing hey, look, we're able to turn this experience around look, NPS scores are through the roof and people are saying that their experiences attend due to the customer support hey look, these negative experiences drove customers away from our brand when it comes down to the wire and businesses are looking at a looming recession and cost cutting happens they're obviously going to cut costs to the places that feel easiest to lower cost now the built the billboard in the middle of Times Square obviously that's so important, right? Like it's it's comical how brands that you know, will lay off 50% of their support team and then keep the billboards going. It's obvious that your your billboard is not doing more for your brand per se than great support is and we're laughing because it's comical, but I think it kind of shows us where we're heading directionally. And I think that's the renaissance of customer experience is the fact that I have a career doing this and getting paid well. We haven't seen this many people in CX leadership as we have now in a while now the bottom rolls are slowly getting cut. And I think that's a moment of reckoning for us to be how can we deliver a fantastic experiences with a lean team? b How can we sell this premise to the people that are paying the bills and deciding who to hire and see how can we create a brand that's known for customer experience so that businesses say oh shit, this is this is a revolution like people are upset Test with our brand. They love the products, but they're also non stop raving about the support and that doesn't necessarily cost a lot of money.

Rick Denton: 10:06

Yeah, well and I love that. I'm chuckling about the billboard and I think that's gonna sit with me for a while that yeah, I kept your billboard in Times Square and oh my gosh, how amazing that must have been to your financial results as opposed to the, the now three hour wait time to contact somebody in customer service. It great point there. And so let's take that into that DTC space. And so much of that, in theory should be that it's easier to listen to the customer because you're you're directly with them in that case, so understand their needs, their wants their perspective on the experience that you happen to deliver. So I'm curious how you have listened to the customer in that DTC space. And anything that's been particularly surprising that you've learned from your DTC customers.

Eli Weiss: 10:52

Yeah, I think my my experience here coming from, you know, the brand prior to Jones road was all the pop, which is a, you know, a soda brand. And they were about 60%, retail, and 40%, etc, and 99% of our inbound tickets were around direct consumer. So you know, these were millions of customers are buying in, you know, everywhere from Whole Foods to Walmart, none of them were reaching out to us directly. And we knew the issues that we were facing on DTC, whether it be the ingredients, or the banged up can or whatever. And we were realizing nobody was reaching out about that. So that's number one, it's, it's pretty pivotal, when you understand that most customers have a problem with your brand aren't reaching out, the people that are, are either really frustrated, or really want to get a resolution or have more time on their hands than most, especially when it takes six hours to talk to somebody at Delta. But like there's, there's there's this kind of like, misunderstanding here. Some of the things I've learned is, you know, customer experience, the difference between customer experience and customer service, where customer service is just reactive, where's my order customer experiences, this kind of like across the customer journey that we spoke about? The biggest thing I'm seeing is, if you can sit down and think about, Hey, how can I elevate the growth team's mission? And how can I elevate the retention team's mission? How can I elevate the product team's mission, by taking customer feedback, we kind of switch the framing to being like, Hey, we're a team that's complaining about what customers are complaining, to, hey, we are the customer that's sitting at the table. So when you have that MTC in that board meeting, this is the voice of the customer, it could be Eli, it could be anyone else on the CX team, but we're talking to 10s of 1000s of customers a month, we are the voice of the customer. Now, on a practical level, Rick, you know, if we, if I have 30 conversations with customers, and I realized that people love our products, because they're versatile, they're super easy to use. It's one product that solves all your beauty problems, I can tell that to the growth team. And they say, Hey, that's a good angle to test on our Facebook ads. So I think that's like a, you know, an example on the growth side. On the retention side, hey, we see customers don't love our product, because they're not really educated enough on how to use it. It's a category category creator, it doesn't exist elsewhere. So we can take that to the retention team and say, Hey, let's create a post purchase email flow that kind of highlights all these issues that we're seeing people reach out about, and we can elevate the customer experience 10x easily. So those are two examples on growth and retention. But obviously I'm product is about Hey, what should we produce next? Or how can we impact and change the packaging and an opposite? It's about hey, there's a QC issue or whatnot. But I think it's it when we switch the framing to how can we be the voice of the customer throughout the business? I think that changes the way we we act on a day to day,

Rick Denton: 13:30

you may have noticed a growing smile, just kind of a slow growing smile as you answered that. Because I asked you how we listen to the customer. And what I love is you you actually went straight to here's how we act on it. And it is amazing how many companies get the Listen, right? But they fail on the ACT side of it. And I love that you're saying look, here are the solutions that can be inspired by what we've heard from the customer. Here's the growth, here's the the correction, all of that. That's that act on the listen and act side of it that a lot of companies tend to overlook because as long as they've listened, they got their survey score in and ooh, yay, the NPS went up or it went down mu. They feel like they've accomplished something. And your choice to pivot that immediately into that action makes a lot of sense to me. Have you found since you've been in both worlds, do you my premise that it's easier and DTC to hear and and I use that term here somewhat loosely, customers speak to us in many different ways. Do you find it easier to listen to the customer in the DTC world? Or is it just different nuances? What have you seen as sort of the differences in listening to a customer in the DTC world versus others?

Eli Weiss: 14:37

I'd say that let me flip this question a little bit and focus on the challenges and then that'll highlight kind of like the easy parts. The challenges are the brands that are much larger than us that have tremendous budgets are spending six figures on customer listening tools and like you said, doing not much with it because they're very good at listening. So when you have the you know, when you have the capacity to send a $50 gift card for somebody taking a fork question survey, and you have a whole customer research team. And you're kind of cultivating and creating these massive reports that and you get nothing done with it. That's ironically, pretty easy. It's very easy to spend a lot of money on a tool that listens and kind of continue listening. The the difficulty with with DTC and sometimes brands that like us that are bootstrapped is, you have to do the same amount plus with a 30th of the budget. So our only tool we're running is NPS for a couple $100 a month. And the hard part is making time. I think that, you know, yeah, the benefits are a your direct to consumer, you have every customers email, that doesn't mean every customer is eager to talk to you, that also doesn't mean that every customer is leaving a review, you have access to more customers. But if you look at a brand, you know, the size of Walmart, they have access to, I don't know, hundreds of millions of customers, that doesn't necessarily mean that they listen or act. And maybe they do maybe they don't. But I think the the challenge is doing more with less. And I think that's kind of why I focus on Hey, what's actionable. So my whole career has been in these tiny startups where I was a five person team with with 124 hour day. And I've I've been focusing like, How can I provide value, I always think about customer experience as the team with the biggest chip on our shoulder, we know that we're not paid as much as ops or paid as much as marketing or looked at in a beautiful bright glow the way that the chief product officer is or whatnot. And I think that most of my career that made me sour, whereas like, oh, I, I should switch to SAS or I should switch to ops or I should switch like my career. So I can be in a cool position versus, hey, if we want to change this, we have to show the impact. And we have to show what's what's possible. And part of that is like, Oh, we can do cool surprise and delight things are oh, we can highlight customer interactions that made somebody's day, week year. But the pivot of hey, I have to prove the value of this because that's just where we are. This is this is the job you chose, has been tremendously impactful and making me start focusing on like, Hey, what are the actions we can take our Hey, how can we change this from like, passive?

Rick Denton: 17:10

Eli, you're, you're clearly preaching to the choir when we're talking all this action, action, action action, I absolutely love it. I can see why that would be. And it shows that passion for the customer comes through because you're you're not talking about just being interested score you mentioned, I think you mentioned Walmart, and they have one of my greatest examples of an obvious survey and score not listening act, if you've ever checked out at Walmart, in a physical store, you are in the self checkout lane, you are presented with a about a five second survey, how was your visit today, one to five on the stars? How on earth is anyone going to do anything with that information with the massive amount of variables that could influence how My visit was today. And boy, I better be fast at clicking it too, because it doesn't appear. So though in a very, very obvious example of survey and score. Brands like yours that are focused on action. People like you, they're focused on action. They're the ones that are going to help elevate that renaissance in customer experience and actually prove the results create the tangible business results that we're all looking to deliver.

Eli Weiss: 18:15

Yeah, it's been a it's been interesting just to kind of like, operate at a business that's growing this quickly and being focused on hey, what can I do this actionable and remove a lot of the fluff. And I think part of corporate America. You know, when I joined my, when I started my career without any college degree, I jumped in, I was like, why is everyone talking the same language? Like what are these words that everyone's using, that aren't used outside of the office. And I think we're taught to be robotic and kind of like, make a kick ass presentation. We're taught like corporate America teaches you how to create a good presentation, and how to create KPIs and how to create kind of like how to pass as any job you want. And when you get a new position and a new part of a business or a new company, you look at the people above you, and hey, what are they doing? And they're using words on long meetings, let me do the same. And I think that slowly sucks the life out of you or causes you to move slowly and not focus on action.

Rick Denton: 19:12

Oh my gosh, that we could like that portion right there. We could carve out in a totally separate podcast episode about just the the ridiculousness of corporate America and I'm guilty of it too good gravy. I know. I've done it from time to time as well. You can't be in the industry for three decades, almost three decades, without absorbing some of that. So let's get out of the corporate world though. Let's talk about something kind of fun. You mentioned to me that your first international trip was when you went to Israel when you were 20. Yeah. And from there, you traveled dozens of countries in the three years that you were there. So you've had a lot of travel under your belt, and we'll continue to do so. What were some of the stories from those travels? And did any of those happen to shape your perspective on customer experience?

Eli Weiss: 19:54

Oh, gosh. Wow, this is I love this question. I think that when so many people We were going to college and getting a degree in finance, or economics or psychology. I was traipsing around Serbia, Macedonia. God knows where else. Like you said, I travelled a bit as a teenager in the US and I never left the country until 20. I took my first international trip at 22 Israel with a stopover in Vienna. And I just remember being wowed by the fact that nobody spoke my language. But they were acting the same. I'm a I guess I could be considered a people watcher. I love watching the way people's behavior mannerisms are. And I would just sit around and watch how people were the same. They wanted to be listened to they were getting angry that they were waiting too long for a pastry right. It's the same kind of they want to be heard and listened to. And I think the most exciting part of my travel is we were kind of going from country to country, it was me and a friend of mine. I had all these points. He had no points and a couple of dollars. So I was responsible for half the nights. He was responsible for the other half. So we were going from five star hotel to $7 $12 a night hostels been there it was, yeah, yeah. It was fascinating, just to see how the people were the same people were the same in every country, we went to the people, you know, like, yeah, maybe some countries are a little bit more rude or they drove a little more chaotic. But for the most part, people were the same. I was massively inspired by hospitality. I love love luxury hotels, more than anything. I love the fact that they do what CX is what CX aspires to do. We listen, we read between the lines, we understand when somebody's celebrating something, we try to make it magical. We empathize before we try to fix so many things that we can learn. And that's what inspired me to jump into CX because I was just so inspired by the way, a great hotel changed your week, like a great welcome experience a great check in experience. I remember checking into the JW Marriott in Singapore. And I just remember, they upgraded us to a stunning suite and the way they treated us at check in. And the way they made us feel like we were the only guests they knew us by name. I don't even know how they knew who we were as we walked in. They welcomed us they welcome drink and everything just felt less rehearsed more magical. And I think most businesses fail to do that you take a great experience like somebody's birthday, and instead of making it feel personalized and magical, you make it like, hey, for the next 12 hours, here's 15% off go quickly before we sell out, we take these magical moments and we turn them into a cash grab. And something that luxury hotels don't do is they already got your money. So yeah, you might, you might get up sold to a nice 60 minute massage or dinner at the at the restaurant, et cetera, et cetera, but they you already paid and now it's their job to kind of give you what you paid. I think DTC has a ton to learn from that

Rick Denton: 23:09

oh, man, Eli, that experience in Singapore sounds absolutely spectacular. I got to experience something similar to that in Bangkok. It was the Renaissance, I think. But either way, you know one of those upper end hotels, and just a glorious experience. And it is and I too have stayed at the $7 or less hostels and the backpacking trips. So I can appreciate both sides of of the experience and each gave me the experience that I was expecting. So that was okay. But in all of your travels, I imagine that there's been moments of exhaustion, there's probably been times that you are absolutely worn out most of us when we're travelers we are and so it can be nice to take a little break. And especially if you got access to the first class lounge and you do you have access to the first class lounge today. So I'm going to ask you to join me here in this lounge. Move quickly here and we will have a little bit of fun. What is a dream travel location from your past?

Eli Weiss: 24:02

One of my favorite places to go to was Serbia. I think Americans think of travel they think of Rome and Paris and not to say those are overdone. They are but there's so much about those kind of like undiscovered. A those people are so pleased to have you and they were the kindest, most hospitable people that I've met. In all my travels, we asked somebody for directions and they walked us all the way to our hotel, and they were just so thrilled to see people enjoying their culture and we had a great time there.

Rick Denton: 24:35

Yeah, Serbia does sound really really great. Just a few episodes ago had someone on from Prague who started a church there and the stories that he has told both on the air and off the air of how amazing that city is. Really sounds like a place to be it's it's on my list of where I want to go but what for you what is a dream travel location for you that you've not been to yet?

Eli Weiss: 24:57

So I have a dream Without going to Dubai for the longest time, and I'm actually going on Sunday, so I'm, I'm really, really excited about that. My next step, this is something that's been on my list since I started traveling and, you know, a decade ago is Tokyo. And somewhere in my head, I have this idea that Tokyo done well, is is better than just doing it not high end. And I'd rather go to Tokyo and I can really, really spend. So it's one of those things. It's like when I have the money, I will do a big, big lavish Tokyo trip and get the full experience. But I love hospitality. And I love Awesome. Yeah, I love places that just treat you really well. And I've definitely been to places that didn't. And I was like, Why? Why am I here? So I'm, I'm excited about great hospitality.

Rick Denton: 25:52

Well, I can tell you this as someone who did do the Japan trip over the holiday period between 22 and 23 this year, and with my son studying abroad there, listeners, I know you've heard that a few times already. But Japan has come up quite a bit as it's reopened last year, like a lot of countries. Ila Yes, Tokyo can be spectacular, and Tokyo can be expensive, but I will tell you, you don't have to do it that way. And you would still get phenomenal hospitality. A guest a former guest on the show a couple episodes ago spoke of Omotenashi which is the spirit of hospitality. And it pervades all aspects of the Japanese hospitality is great. I will add this you said Tokyo. I will tell you make sure you get Kyoto and that list. I found that I love Kyoto even more if Tokyo was phenomenal. This was it'd be like St. Tokyo's a and Kyoto was a plus it was wonderful. Part of what I loved a lot about Japan was the food was spectacular. So Eli what is a favorite thing of yours to eat?

Eli Weiss: 26:49

I will always go for Mediterranean food like I will never say no to a hummus and some some fresh pitas. A falafel I love Mexican food of any kind. How

Rick Denton: 27:00

love it. Absolutely love it. You're making me hungry. Now it's the noon timeframe in my timezone. And I'm getting hungry. What is a thing your parents for should eat? So this is the other way thing your parents forced to eat, but you're hated as a kid

Eli Weiss: 27:13

I hated and still hate fish. The only kind of like fish that I'll eat is is tuna. But generally as a rule, if it swims, I don't I don't need it. That's my general guideline.

Rick Denton: 27:28

Kind of, it's possible to do that with Mediterranean food. But it is funny. You've got the Mediterranean there and yet, anything that swims it's not you're not a fan of but I love that. It's fun. I love asking this question. Let's go back to travel. It's close out the lounge with this what is one travel item not including your phone, not including your passport that you will not leave home without?

Eli Weiss: 27:48

Oh, gosh, any sort of sleep aid

Rick Denton: 27:58

Oh, Eli sleep aid. Absolutely. I too struggled to sleep when I travel, be it on the plane or with jetlag. So I'm with you and needing those those sleep aids of whatever sort they might exist. You said something earlier, you mentioned Zappos. And you mentioned how you know they set the standard. And a lot of times it is a brand that is mentioned as this pinnacle, that this is the ultimate This is the Nirvana of customer experience. But you gave me a different perspective on that when we talked earlier, would you go deeper into what your perspective is on Zappos as the ideal?

Eli Weiss: 28:39

Record, it's such a challenging topic for me because on one hand, I grew into this position where I'm at by reading you reading Tony Shay's book and studying what Zappos did, you know, Delivering Happiness was my blueprint. And then when you kind of see where we've come in the last couple of years, we're realizing that Zappos was way ahead of its time and the way that they were focused on experience versus the cost that it takes to create the experience. So they were selling the same shoes that DSW was selling, but they were creating this experience where you'd rather spend the same money and purchase through them because you knew you were taken care of. When we zoom out a couple 1000 feet in the air, where we start realizing that what they did should have been the bare minimum, creating a space where people can always call and get support, creating a space where people were listened to and not hung up on creating a space where if somebody's package got lost, they did what it took to figure out how to get there. So many of the things that they did is now I would consider an our customer experience world as that's where the bar should have been. So I think Zappos is interesting in the way that they've created a universe that didn't exist. I think the other interesting example to consider, which which has this more magical impact for me is chewy. I think two E's most famous for when they find out that A pet passes that passes away, they say a gift. And what so many brand owners view as the traditional end to a customer journey, chewy is viewing as the transition to a new one. And that doesn't mean more revenue for them necessarily. It means kind of tying the knot on the relationship they had. And that's what you know, that's, that's where you're giving without any expectation of anything in return. I think that's an example of where magic happens when when we describe surprise and delight initiatives to our bosses and we say, hey, we want to create magic. It's always like, Why, what's the ROI? How does this How does this make the business went? And you say, well, word of mouth? Well, how do we track that? And marketers love numbers and growth, people love numbers. And I think in all the numbers searching, we have lost humaneness in this, we've lost the, you know, like the ability to decipher that if, if this would create magic for me, if I lost something that meant so much to me, and I received a gift from the company I bought pet food from, how magical would that be, and that $20 gift or that $40 gift with a handwritten note when they spent 1000 $2,000 with you is a drop in the bucket. If we were less focused on hoarding every last dollar and creating customer relationships that are valuable instead, I think we'd have an entirely different not just company, but we'd have an entirely different industry, we'd be focused on, hey, how can I create an experience, you know, so much of this, to me is bonkers because I talk to brands that are similar, similar, you know, size wise, and we both have, you know, 2030 40,000 tickets a month plus. And you know, like, we have invested so much money in hiring top talent. And we're actually spending the same much money, but they've convinced themselves that they have a team of 60, when I have a team of six, so they must be doing better. And a lot of it is deeply understanding that quality helps to get better quantity as well, if you hire somebody that's exceptional, like if I didn't have to spend four hours trying to change my flight, or get a refund from my hotel, or whatever, kind of like, what we kind of characterized as these annoying experiences. Like if I was talking to somebody that had the ability to impact it in the correct way quickly. And I spent three minutes instead of 45 the whole time. So it'd be lower, the response times would be would be shorter, like everything would just work like a well oiled machine. But instead, we're always optimizing for an extra dollar.

Rick Denton: 32:23

You you, you hit a couple things there. And I think I want to end there because you ended on something really beautiful, and that is the humanity, the absence of humanity. And I'm sure there's they're maybe not listeners to CX passport, as this were perhaps out into a wider world, that there might be a cynicism to that. Yeah, so what but that's not what business is in the the world of business to be to just create happiness and the like. And yet to your point, though, even that is true that yes, it's just a happiness factor. But look at what the downstream impact can be not just word of mouth. But that shorter handle time, that improved ability to execute and be able to move on to the next call the employee engagement that comes from that all those things are real, tangible results that exist, you had that point. And then I also love the fact that you brought in, you know, focusing on talent, I'd add something to that in that agents situation. And that's the talent and the tools, that it's great. If you hire the best talent, you need to also equip them with the best tools. Because your even your greatest talent can be hamstrung by a bad system, a bad process, a bad tool to be able to deliver that great customer experience that goes back to some of you said kind of at the beginning, that customer experiences this whole suite of things that we may have siloed into Oh, the CX team. But how can the things that the CX team do, expand and help share that learning into the rest of the business so that they can get better at that? Eli? I've enjoyed this conversation and folks wanted to get to know you a little better to learn a little bit more about your perspective on customer experience or even to get to know Joan's beauty a little bit better. Where would they turn?

Eli Weiss: 34:03

Yes. Well, first of all, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. It feels like I came across this podcast a couple of months ago and I said hey, this this feels like my life story here. This is travel. These are the two things I'm so excited about. So I'm so I'm so honored that you had me here. They can find me. It's my first name my last name with an extra s because Eli why seems to be a hot name. So Eli Weis e li w e i s s.com or Twitter Eli Weiss with an extra s is where I'm found in Jones road beauty.com or Jones road beauty on all socials.

Rick Denton: 34:39

I will get all of that in the show notes listeners. You can find that extra s right there in your show notes and you'll be able to reach out to Eli directly that way. Eli again brilliant episode. I really enjoyed getting to learn from you. I certainly am jealous of your Serbia experience. And who knows maybe someday you'll grow into that that desire for fish but even if you don't, there's so much great other Mediterranean foods that you can enjoy Eli, thank you so much for being on CX Passport.

Eli Weiss: 35:06

Thanks for having me.

Rick Denton: 35:12

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. If you liked today’s episode I have 3 quick next steps for you Click subscribe on the CX Passport youtube channel or your favorite podcast app Next leave a comment below the video or a review in your favorite podcast app so others can find and and enjoy CX Passport too Then, head over to cxpassport.com website for show notes and resources that can help you create tangible business results by delivering great customer experience. Until next time, I’m Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.