Sarah Baker: 0:00

I think when sometimes when people try to solve for the collective, they really end up solving for no one. And so we were just really conscious about, about leaving room for those customized elements and for the ability for markets to kind of to take things and make it a little bit of their own while still maintaining that global blueprint or global standard so that we can have that holistic viewpoint of everything.

Rick Denton: 0:30

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode we’ll talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. how do you create a great customer experience across a global and I mean, global brand. How do you go about setting up practices that truly listen to the customer in a way allowing you to then act on what you learn? How do you make sure that a company vision of putting a customer at the center isn't just a phrase on a wall or a squish ball handed out at a town hall, but a true expression of the level of influence the customer has on the business? Enter today's guest, Sarah Baker, director of customer experience at KFC. Sarah has a wealth of experience helping global blant brands like KFC use the customer's voice in a myriad of forms to solve problems and advocate for the customer. When you're talking about a brand like KFC, the reach is global and the experience is local. With over 25,000 KFC restaurants and over 145 countries and territories around the world. There's a reach and a diversity of the customer and the employee to that brings a richness and challenge to driving a customer experience program forward. Today Sarah is an integral part of KFC listens, a KFC program to listen, act and delight I am energized to learn more about that program. I am certain there are stories to enjoy, and lessons we can all learn from this program. And don't forget the employee and I know Sarah most certainly does not knowing that you can't create a better customer experience than what you create employee experience. Making sure you get that right is key. Going back to that global aspect. Try and imagine understanding that across 145 countries. Today won't be a tale of a journey completed as Tyler saxy in the episode with footlocker back in episode 110. Anyone who says they've solved voc has a rude awakening coming. Sara is on that journey knowing full well that solving isn't the objective ongoing learning and growing of a program is the objective. I can't wait to learn more. Sarah, welcome to CX passport.

Sarah Baker: 2:57

Thank you so much. Happy to be here.

Rick Denton: 3:00

Yeah, I'm really glad to have you here. Sarah is up in Chicago. I'm down here in the Texas area, we're gonna have a little fun in this Central Time Zone learning about customer experience as we talk about around the globe. Sarah, let's just start by let's setting the stage a bit helping listeners know more about your role at KFC. What are you driving there? Now? How are you helping to build a program of that listen, act and delight?

Sarah Baker: 3:23

Yeah, of course. So I lead what we call Experience Management globally for KFC. And that includes both customer experience and employee experience, I would say my predominant focus is customer experience is at the center of our growth strategy. We also know how deeply linked it is to the employee experience. And like you said, when you're in a restaurant, if the employees are having a bad experience that likely translates to not so great customer experience. So what I'm focused on right now is building KFC lessons. And this is our program that covers both customer and employee lessons. And the goal of it is to really meet people where they are. So we're bringing in more data than we ever have been able to before to understand how customers and team members experience our brand where we might do really well in Excel and where we might fall short. And the idea is that we'll be able to take these real time learnings and action on them in order to create that delightful experience for our guests and our employees through every single interaction we have. And our goal for this program is really to make it actionable at every single level of the business.

Rick Denton: 4:32

I think that's Sara, like from the beginning when you and I came to know each other introduced through a mutual CX colleague, that that spirit of action is the one that certainly has intrigued me right? That's a part of the tagline of my company. It when you talked about that listen and act and delight and all that goes into that. It's a pretty ambitious effort, especially when you're talking about something that not only we've got the global aspect, we're gonna dive into the global aspect of it. But I think about a company like KFC that has been around for decades for a long time with this, this reach. There's already perhaps even a preconceived, or maybe I'd say an institutional understanding of the customer, who they are, what their desires are, what their expectations are. Now, that's what's great about a program, or I anticipate that's what's great about a program like yours is that I know that at some places, when you've got that institutional understanding that has that risk of being this insulated view, something that's designed in a boardroom without really understanding what the customer thinks and feels. I'm curious as you've built out this program, and as you're kind of growing this program, what's the customer stories or insights have already come around that surprised? And maybe even shook up some of that understanding of that institutional understanding of the customer?

Sarah Baker: 5:51

Yeah, so I think I think to answer this, we can go back to what you said at the beginning of conversations, we are very recognizable established global brand, we have customers in a, like, I would say, almost every country in the world, you make almost no assumptions about our customers. To be honest with you, we know that customer behavior is evolving every single second of every single day. And we also know that our customer profile varies greatly by market. So you and I are sitting here in the US talking, I think some people listening in the US might be surprised to hear that in restaurants and other markets, we have, like countries where the average age is 22. Whereas in the US, we have a much older customer base. Wow. All that to say like, we know that we're really never done, learning about our customers, getting closer to the realities of our customers is really the goal of this program and grow, grabbing ourselves in reality and making sure that we're making data driven decisions. And we're really, I think one of the things that is unique about this brand is we're really not afraid to dig in where we failed, consumer behavior is ever changing. And so we know that even the lines of like the restaurant category, are being blurred. And so it's really up to us to ensure that our brand continues to innovate continues to evolve and be able to meet those customers where they are. So all that to say like we're learning every single day about our customers, we also know that there's a different story to tell for customers in every single market. And so this program is really to surface those insights and be able to create experiences that that are delightful for customers, no matter who they are or what their situation is.

Your CX Passport Captain: 7:39

This is your captain speaking. I want to thank you for listening to CX Passport today. We’ve now reached our cruising altitude so I’ll turn that seatbelt sign off. <ding> While you’re getting comfortable, hit that Follow or Subscribe button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. I’d love it if you’d tell a friend about CX Passport and leave a review so that others can discover the show as well. Now, sit back and enjoy the rest of the episode.

Rick Denton: 8:05

that I keep teasing this. I want to talk about that global aspect of there. But you said something that intrigued me. And that is, and it's a scary place for a company to be and that is we're not afraid to focus on where we've fallen short. How would you say that this program? And I know, again, I know it's a growing and evolving program. How are you? Would you say that this programming program is helping both to expose where it's fallen short, but also support the growth through that falling short and pivot into where you can then turn that fall short into something that ends up being a delight in a future experience?

Sarah Baker: 8:43

Yeah, no, I think that's a fantastic question. And I think it goes back to what I was saying at the start about this being a program that's actionable at all levels. Because if you think about it, if you're a restaurant manager, and yes, you understand that, you know, your overall satisfaction score is x. But you don't really know what to do about that, then it's kind of like, okay, great. But if you're a restaurant manager, it says my overall satisfaction score is really low. And my focus areas are I keep forgetting fries during the lunchtime rush in the drive thru. Like those are real insights that we can actually take an action on at the restaurant level, we can also do the same thing at the market level and at the global level as well, because although I just mentioned that our customer bases are extremely unique globally, there are of course commonalities. And so we'll eventually be able to bubble up all those insights and have really a global perspective and a global view about the KFC business.

Rick Denton: 9:46

Yeah, and certainly that globalist way fits the CX passport. That idea though, I you know, what I like about your example there is and I think this is true of a lot of just in general voice the customer approaches and that is A lot of times what is being heard isn't overly complex. It just never was heard outside of the existence of a disciplined approach, whether that's a formal program, KFC listens, or whether it's just, we're going to actually an informal way, listen to our customers and do something about it. If customers are consistently saying, hey, my fries are missing, well, there are things that you can do to help equip employees so that the fries are more readily available, or whatever it is, you know, we're certainly not going to solve for these challenges here on this call. But the idea is it challenges often aren't all that challenging. They just need to be raised in awareness, and then the energy to do something about it. And I think that that example tells me a lot about something that you had shared with me when we were talking before the show. And this idea of KFC putting the customer at the center. And I know a lot of companies have those kind of words, they'll say that we're customer centric, we are customer obsessed, or that sort of thing. There's this KFC listens, and the desire to be this heart led brand exists at KFC. I'm curious, though, how do you go and know that you've gone beyond just those words, but actually doing this? How are you actually putting the customer to the center? And what does that actually look like?

Sarah Baker: 11:15

Yeah, it's a great question. And I think like, customer experience has really gotten to the forefront of a lot of companies. And what I will say is, for us, it's a journey, it's, it's something that's never ending, I think you said that this is the beginning, we're never just going to solve, okay, we've like nailed our customer experience, and we're done working. It takes everyone in the organization and at the heart, I think what it really is about is building empathy, and ensuring that we're close to the customer, we're close to the employee, and that those two groups have a voice in everything we do. So just some examples as an organization, and especially in operations, we do spend so much time actually in the restaurant, we get to talk to customers, and we get to make sure that we stay close to the people who represent our brand every single day and the customers that they serve, I think hearing directly from them about their challenges about their friction points. We often hear like some of the best in the simplest solutions, like you said, a lot of these programs or problems are not rocket science to solve. But it takes being able to surface them in a detailed way to say, Oh, you're, you know, you're missing sauces and dips at dinnertime, or, you know, food is getting cold between six and 7pm, to say, Oh, actually, that's something that I can go and pinpoint and solve versus like, accuracy is a problem. Because that it's like there's so many things that we could, we could talk about when it comes to accuracy.

Rick Denton: 12:49

And what what I've seen at other places, and I'm definitely hearing here as well about putting the customer at the center is it's that customers voice. A lot of times voc equals survey, we're not going to talk about in people's minds that it's just sort of a you've already shown an example of how we get out there and actually talk to the customers we get into the stores we're under. So the physical presence is another way to get that voice of the customer. And there's all sorts of ways of getting the voice of the customer. What I'm hearing, too is in a in a suite of possible options of possible initiatives that exist out there. One of the ways to help gain that buy in for fixing something doing something is by having the customer tell you that it's something that's broken, have you found. Let me ask it a little different. What are some of the situations where you found that having that customer tell the story, whether it's indirectly through the data that you have, but it's the customer telling the story that's helped influence the direction that a company is choosing when it comes to improving experience? Well, I

Sarah Baker: 13:46

think it's like what I said before about us being such a heart led company that really prioritizes empathy, like when you hear something directly from a customer like yes, it might be a one off situation. But it's almost indisputable. And when you have, it's almost to me like that, that interaction with customers and with the team members who are serving them, hundreds just validates everything that we're seeing and hearing in the data, because those are the people that are really closest to the interactions. And it just it just humanizes it a lot more. And I think when you have an actual person in front of you, telling you something, it just makes you want to solve the problem for them that much more. I think, you know, we can show all kinds of data. We can show charts all day long. But I actually found in my sex career that the things that make that stick the most with people are direct interactions or videos or even things like quotes because they're sticky in our brains and we can remember them and we remember the people versus just the data.

Rick Denton: 14:52

It's a lot harder to ignore or dismiss someone that is in your face telling you something that's wrong. As it is right To just well, you know, that report Oh, is that story it was a bad day, I don't know the the fries were slippery, right? You know, they're upset, something went wrong and you feel that compulsion to solve for that. And it helps drive that by and I want to pivot and take it in a different direction, because you've got a particularly interesting element in your background that I want to go in. It's away from KFC and it's away from CX. You're on the board of Girls on the Run Chicago, and that's not one that I'd heard about before. So I'm actually personally intrigued. I know the listeners will be, uh, tell me more about the organization and what you're accomplishing there.

Sarah Baker: 15:34

Yeah, so I'm on the associate board. If so, girls on the resin national organization, I happen to be on the associate board of the Chicago chapter, what it is, is an after school program for girls in third through eighth grade. And really, the value proposition is all about imparting intentional social and emotional lessons to the power of sports. So the the program that Girls on the Run has built helps increase the likelihood of success and helps girls advocate for themselves make friends. Because we know that this third through eighth grade time is a time that for girls and for adolescents in general, that competence drops. And so this is a I think a mission that's really near and dear to my heart, not only women's empowerment and confidence building, but also I grew up playing sports. And I just really love the idea of building that competence through activity. And so I've been on the associate board for four years. Right now I chair what's called the board development committee, and that committee really helps us bring in new new members to the board and what are our overall mission are what we've been working on so far is creating an associate board that kind of is a reflection of the girls we serve. So we've been on that journey for for some time now. But it's it's really exciting work, I would say. They do. They host the Chicago chapter hosts five K's used to be twice a year. Now it's more like once a year, but that just really I like I said before the people you really get to see the work that you're doing and seeing you know, these third through eighth graders run a 5k accomplish that and like their the looks of their faces, I think just make it all work worth it. And you can really see the value proposition come to life.

Rick Denton: 17:31

Oh, Sarah, I'm glad that I had the chance to ask you about that organization, because I just wasn't one that I known well before. And as you and I have had a chance to talk perhaps Off mic a little bit that is an area that is certainly a great opportunity in someone's age to really build them up or many experience being torn down. And so I'm glad to hear that there's an organization like this to help really edify grow and instill that confidence. And in an area that I love and sounds like you live as well through sports. What a great way of doing that. Now. Sarah total departure here. From that you have a very global schedule, you have a lot of the globe that you need to travel. So I know that you value a first class lounge, when you have the opportunity to stop in one. I highly recommend the Cathay Pacific first class lounge in Hong Kong if you ever get that opportunity. Spectacular. Okay, that noted. I can't equate what we're about to do to quite that, but I do want to invite you to take a little break here. Let's stop down and enjoy the first class lounge. We'll move quickly here and have a little bit of fun what is a dream travel location from your past?

Sarah Baker: 18:39

Okay, so I really struggled with this question to be honest, because there are so many places that I would like to go back to but I would have to say Italy at their side of Italy that I haven't explored. I am a quarter Italian and I would go back there every year if I could. That was just like, a phenomenal experience. And yeah, love, love the food of the weather.

Rick Denton: 19:06

Amen. Amen. Amen. And and you're right there's so many places that we as tourists have gone or typically have gone wouldn't it be great to just spend six months there and just slow explore the country or why stay six months six years pick your number but whatever that looks like I can see why that's a delightful now let's go forward. What is a dream travel vacation? You've not been to yet.

Sarah Baker: 19:28

This this one I also racked my brain on because it's a long list. But I first and foremost I think Patagonia my husband and I had wanted to do our honeymoon there. But it was like back in COVID times and so Argentina was not open to tourists and so we kind of had to pivot we pivoted to Africa, which was phenomenal. I wouldn't take it back but yeah, Patagonia just like is so spectacular from every photo I've ever seen. And just Yeah, I think I have that sense of or Uh, like underlying desire for like adventure travel and so yeah, definitely fits that bill.

Rick Denton: 20:07

Well as evidenced by a honeymoon in Africa that was intended to be in Patagonia. Now you just have a future marriage celebration anniversary to to take down there. Yeah. Patagonia is it intrigues me, I hope to get down there. And I hope to get down there because not many people are talking about it. And I have this fear that eventually it's going to be a place that gets talked about, maybe we'll edit this section out.

Sarah Baker: 20:31

No, it's true. I actually had a conversation. This is a little bit of a digression, but I had a conversation with someone in Portugal The other week that was basically like, all of the good places are on the internet now. And so everyone goes to them. And so how do you find the places that people are not talking

Rick Denton: 20:50

about right? I mean, I may go look at my old let's go book from my college days to see if any of those didn't make the internet list. So you mentioned the food of Italy, right? And it is spectacular in general. What is a favorite thing of yours to eat?

Sarah Baker: 21:06

I mean, I have to say pasta, like hands down. I always want pasta I try to make I make homemade pasta when I have the time and typically that well, Sunday, and I feel like it's just yeah, it's a great tradition. But honestly, if I think if I could, like stomach it and my waistline could afford it, I would eat it for every meal.

Rick Denton: 21:31

Pretty preach. Oh, preach. Yeah, let's go the other direction, though. What was something growing up that you were forced to eat, but you hated as a kid?

Sarah Baker: 21:41

So this one is funny. I would have to say asparagus. I swear that my mother made me eat asparagus for every meal. She said she made me eat it twice. But it was like this thing that just was caught. I felt like constantly looming over me and I would dread having asparagus for dinner now. I love asparagus when needed all the time.

Rick Denton: 22:01

Yeah, it is interesting how our tastes change and how our memories are skewed because it's just planted in your brain that you've had at all these times. And I did it twice.

Sarah Baker: 22:12

Now, I still think maybe both of us are remembering wrong and it's probably somewhere in the middle. But

Rick Denton: 22:19

that's awesome. I'm really interested to ask someone like you this question What is one travel item not including your phone, not including your passport that you will not leave home without?

Sarah Baker: 22:31

I don't know if my answers gonna be quite up to snuff. But I actually sent earplugs. Um, I just I'm not a good sleeper and I you would think with all the global travel that I would be trained to be a good sleeper but that's really not the case and I really like to sleep in like complete complete silence like don't even really like the white noise and obviously when you're when you're playing when you're in a strange bed like that type of thing is not possible. So I like live and die by sleeping with earplugs and if I don't have them it's problematic

Rick Denton: 23:09

Sarah, I 100% aligned with your answer may not be my one item. However, I can assure you that if you look in my travel kit for every trip, even the one that's coming up to Arizona this weekend, right it's just a quick trip to Arizona. I will have my earplugs sitting in there because I don't know is the hotel room gonna face University Boulevard is gonna face the backside of it. Is it going to be loud as the plane? I mean, it'd be sleeping on a two hour flight to Phoenix. However, I want those earplugs at night. So I am 1,000% with you that that has to be in the kit. Absolutely. Let's stay in that global aspect because it really is we can throw the numbers like I did in the intro around. It's almost muted, but the global aspect of KFC is truly mind boggling. I've traveled a lot of places in the world and I am sincere with this. I am struggling to think of a location where I haven't seen a KFC Switzerland Czech Brazil, Czech Caymans, Czech, Bangladesh, China, Costa Rica, Israel, Macau, check, check, check, check, check all of those, then that's clearly not a complete list, because we don't have time for me to go through the whole list. But I know that the journey that you're on is not complete around the entire globe. But as you're thinking of that, and as you're building towards that, how are you going about listening to a global customer and advocating for that customer across such a global footprint?

Sarah Baker: 24:31

Yeah, I mean, it's a good question. I would say it's something that we deal with every single day. It's not It's definitely not an easy task. Like I said at the beginning, there is just I mean, people are different customer behaviors different the way the people like to experience our brand is different. But I would I would say that in building this program, we did a ton of work upfront to make sure that our markets and the people that work in them, and are kind of represented observe our employees, our customers have a platform to share their perspective and help co create our program. So we went through a massive discovery phase where we talked to over 50 people throughout the business from all functions from the team member and restaurant manager level up through some of our sea level leaders in markets, and really helped to take their perspective into the initial design of this program. And that also doesn't stop right after design happens. So if a market has an idea for a restaurant manager has an idea, we have a formal process so that we can make sure that everyone's ideas or or perspectives are heard. And then the other thing is, I would say, we do understand, you know, it's, it's not a one size fits all, it can never be a one size fits all. So we also do allocate certain elements of our listening program that we can customize. So we can start to account for those market nuances. And obviously, with with things continuously changing, we're never going to just nail it, it's never going to be all things for everyone. But I think with making sure that everyone has input into the beginning design and has a has a process and a way to say I have an idea. Why did you consider this? I think we can we can start to get there.

Rick Denton: 26:19

Yeah, there's a theme that I heard in there are actually a couple of themes that I heard. And one is around the admission that we don't know what we don't know, right? We're still growing, we're still changing, and the willingness to accept that we aren't there yet. And you and I have kind of talked about this almost to the entire episode and even before and I think that's that attitude of, I'm willing to continue to accept that I don't have the answers. Now. I intend to have the answers at some point. And as I grow that direction, and this willingness to to is the I think the word is to give up some element of control, and give that control to the local, regional, whatever that entities exist. I've had conversations with clients in the past I've had or in other companies in the past were no, no, we're keeping it it's got to be standardized all the way across. Was, was there ever a point in your evolution that there was a conscious decision to say, we're going to have this kind of hybrid of centralized control and regionalised customization? Was that a conscious choice or a natural evolution? How did that come about?

Sarah Baker: 27:23

It was it was I think, just with the you know, there is an effort, because traditionally, KFC has really been not standardized. And so we did want to create something that we could say this is our global program, but at the same time, everything I've said, we know that markets are, at times wildly different from one another. So there's not, you know, I think when sometimes when people try to solve for the collective, they really end up solving for no one. And so we were just really conscious about, about leaving room for those customized elements and for the ability for, for markets to kind of to take things and make it a little bit of their own while still maintaining that, you know, that global blueprint or global standard so that we can have that holistic viewpoint of everything. So I Yes, it was a very, very conscious decision to kind of have elements of both in this program

Rick Denton: 28:22

that enjoy staying in touch and watching your journey through that. Because that's, that's going to be a it's an exciting choice. It's also an exciting challenge, right? That's going to be tricky. There's going to i It'll be interesting to talk to you later about, what were the tension points between control and freedom? And where did that where did that exist? That will be interesting to explore. I'm curious to so we're talking about the customer in that vein, and we had alluded to it earlier, but that also translates to employee experience, a bank of Bangladesh employees certainly has different needs and expectations than a Boise, Idaho employee. And so how is KFC listening to that diverse employee base in order to create a better employee experience? which then in turn creates the better customer experience?

Sarah Baker: 29:11

Yeah, no, that's a great question. And like I said, you're, you're you're right, that their experiences are in in motivations and just mindset going into essentially the same role is completely different. And so like I said before, this program really is built with a bias for action. And so that's not only action, like when it comes to changing the experience in the restaurant for the customers or for the team members, but it's also the program itself. So we have a lot of feedback mechanisms and just basically opportunities for us to to gather feedback from employees directly about our program and what we can do to improve the program so that it in turn improves have the experience for them. And that that's consistent across across all countries. But obviously, the the data and insights we're getting back will be very different. I guess the other thing that I have to say is like when it comes to someone like a restaurant manager, they, they have the ability to understand what's happening with their employees directly Hear, hear their feedback, make instantaneous changes, you also have those market level employees who can understand and identify problems. Or even the flip side of things like what's working really well across the market, we can make sure either those problems are addressed, or that the the things that are working well are scaled. And so the same applies for global like, if you think about it, even though the culture and the customer or employee behavior is not necessarily similar, I think what's really cool about this program is we can see what's worked well in one market or one restaurant, and we can say like, Hey, actually, this could this could work, or we could scale this. And we could really understand the commonalities and then work with markets to either develop new ideas, test solutions, and that actually bring those forth as like global standards. And so that's, that's really what it comes down to is, you know, every single person within this brand has a role to play when it comes to our customer and our employee experience. And I think if we're going to create a program that both has a global standard, and is able to be customized and kind of tailor fit for markets, we have to we have to have the ability to have everyone be able to take action to have everyone be able to have a voice in one way or another. And so that's why we've really purposefully unconsciously built in those kinds of levers and mechanisms for the program. Very,

Rick Denton: 31:48

very, very nice. You know, sir, I think I want to end on that we're out of time. Anyway, I've got a dozen other questions that I want to ask you. That, that concept. I didn't expect that going into our conversation today. Actually, you know, the the globe, the global nature of KFC is significant and an incredible challenge and what a what a mission you have ahead of you. I hadn't expected to talk about that centralized versus the local and how that blends together is particularly fascinating. I really appreciate the insights that you shared there, I certainly am really, really glad to have come to understand a little bit more about Girls on the Run. There was a CX lesson that I actually heard you, we don't have the time to get into it. But even when you talked about setting up the associate Board Advisory associate board right to reflect the the people that are being served by the company what a CX lesson as well as we should be striving to have our customer experience teams do its best to reflect what the customer base looks like so that we can better understand our customers. And just this idea of of the Absolute, the mind boggling global scale of what you're achieving is is impressive, and I've absolutely delighted in what I've gotten to learn including that asparagus is something that you have been tortured with before and will continue to struggle with but can always be well you said you're alright with it now but you will always be able to find a great pasta to overcome that asparagus fear, sir, I really did all joking aside, I did enjoy having you on the show that I've learned a ton I know our listeners have as well. Thank you for being on CX bass board.

Sarah Baker: 33:24

Thank you so much. It's been this has been wonderful.

Rick Denton: 33:32

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. If you liked today’s episode I have 3 quick next steps for you Click subscribe on the CX Passport youtube channel or your favorite podcast app Next leave a comment below the video or a review in your favorite podcast app so others can find and and enjoy CX Passport too Then, head over to cxpassport.com website for show notes and resources that can help you create tangible business results by delivering great customer experience. Until next time, I’m Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.