Adam Haesler: 0:00

A lot of my philosophy in CX is rooted in how do we make sure that we only need one response and not need the customer to ever actually have to respond back to

Rick Denton: 0:19

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode we’ll talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. CX passport listeners, you are some of the most customer centered people out there. I thank you for your engagement. for your continued and dedicated viewing and listening of CX passport each week as a community you are amazing. Today, I want to ask you to join me on a different journey, a different style of episode one that I hope to continue doing on a monthly basis. And at the same time hope that I'm able to stop doing it because there's no longer in need for it. It's no secret and 2023 was a difficult year for many in the customer experience community. Many of you dedicated listeners have reached out and shared your stories of job change. And many of you have shared your stories of that fantastic new job opportunity. You're starting in 2024. So going forward once a month CX passport is going to have the honor of being joined by someone in our customer experience community who is currently seeking that next great CX opportunity. As always, we'll have a chance to learn just like we learned from every guest. Their insights around customer experience their experiences in the customer realm. And we in the CX passport community, get the chance and really the wider customer experience community at large. We have the opportunity to help our monthly guests build networks to source and secure their next great customer experience opportunity. Today I am honored to have Adam Haesler join us on CX passport. Adam most recently drove customer success at fusion and Adam's own words, he has spent quote, the majority of my career on the front lines focused on driving solutions for customers, listeners and viewers know I have deep admiration for those actually working with the customer on those front lines. They know what the real customer experiences for a company experiences like that absolutely shaped a person's perspective on the customer, and how to provide a great customer experience. Adam speaks of three key phrases when describing himself care for others endure discover. It'd be fun to hear how Adam brings those into our conversation today. It is an understatement to tell you that I'm extremely excited about this new series in general. And specifically excited to talk with Adam today. Adam, welcome to CX passport.

Adam Haesler: 3:07

Thanks so much, Rick. It's great to be here. And

Rick Denton: 3:10

Adam. I didn't say this in the intro I should have Where are you coming from today?

Adam Haesler: 3:14

So I am from and in Vancouver, British Columbia, which is in Canada on the far west coast. Very,

Rick Denton: 3:22

very good. And it is a place that I have not been to this is going to really kind of date me a little bit. I've been there since 1986. And even then it was the World Expo. Yeah, it being that long ago, I still remember the beauty, the vibrancy of the community the cultural expansion of it just really the beauty of it. And it was horrible weather by the way, and it was still beautiful. Snow in June or July came are the exact months it was one of those crazy things. So we won't spend too much time talking Vancouver, although I love you know, we could talk travel the whole time, I do want to go get a little more information from you about customer experience your philosophies around it and really your, for lack of a better term experiences and customer experience. So what draws you to customer experience? Why why is this discipline so important to you?

Adam Haesler: 4:14

Yeah, so I guess I should really go back and tell a little bit about my backstory on how I even got into it. So originally, I thought I was on a path to be a professor at a university. And what ended up happening was I got out of a master's degree and unfortunately, I was told oh, you know, you probably wouldn't be very good fit for a PhD and I was like, okay, that's the whole Professor things not gonna work. Okay, I had to find a new career like pretty fast and need to find a job that I could get into and customer service just happened to be one of those things. So we're talking back 2010 So we're talking before, you know, things like Zendesk or even popular we're talking Thinking about like, over the phone, maybe email as your primary focus on any help that you were providing customers. So we're not talking chat, we're not talking ticket support at that time. That was all like, glamorous stuff that was far into the future.

Rick Denton: 5:18

I like that view of those being this futuristic. Yeah, now we look back and chuckle.

Adam Haesler: 5:25

Anyway, so I jumped into a customer support customer service role, and I really gravitated toward it worked it really easily. I think the one thing that I didn't really connect with as a skill of mine, because I've been in the science space, and it being so rigorous and fact based, there was a whole empathetic side of me that I don't think I really tapped into before. And that's what customer service allows me to do. And if you sort of jumped forward, until where we are today, what I've done is I've really focused on outcomes over outputs. And so when it comes to customer service and customer support, customer experience, for me, it's all about how are we driving towards the outcome that the customer wants, not some sort of output that we see as important, whether that's a close ticket, or maybe it's, you know, delivering some sort of response that we think is the right response, and really focusing on the customer experience that they're looking for, which is I just want my problem solved. Or I just want to know how to use this stinking software. I bought it now I don't want to use it or, you know, I bought it and now I'm having bug problems. And you know, just getting them out of that state and getting them back into that excitement of why did they apply the software originally. And I know I'm bringing up software law. And that's just because I've been in software sure for quite a while.

Your CX Passport Captain: 7:04

This is your captain speaking. I want to thank you for listening to CX Passport today. We’ve now reached our cruising altitude so I’ll turn that seatbelt sign off. <ding> While you’re getting comfortable, hit that Follow or Subscribe button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. I’d love it if you’d tell a friend about CX Passport and leave a review so that others can discover the show as well. Now, sit back and enjoy the rest of the episode.

Rick Denton: 7:30

Hey, look, software's but I'm having trouble even forming my words, because they're, they're coming so quickly. We have a lot of problems with software. And so needing the support of a company through their customer support customer success, pick your pick your words here. Yeah, team is so important. That's really intriguing to me that idea of outcomes over outputs. How did you come to that? Where was that sort of epiphany? Or how was that epiphany created for you?

Adam Haesler: 8:07

Yeah, I mean, I think it was just enough, angry customers coming back to me, all right. And rightfully so because what had probably happened to them. Just because I'm thinking, once I moved into a bigger company, where there were maybe a dozen different people doing customer service for these people, is that they had had some sort of experience where somebody had provided them with what was supposed to be the solution. And it didn't resolve the problem. And for me, and I'm probably going to talk about this a lot is that I brought my scientific background into customer service. And what I mean by that is really diving towards what is the root cause of the problem and not making any assumptions. And then making sure that whatever solution I am providing is actually the solution that solves a problem, even if that means clarifying with them what the problem is, and making sure that we are actually collaborating on a solution rather than me just forcing a solution on you, which I've experienced a lot of myself just being soft. That

Rick Denton: 9:23

collaboration spirit, I talk a lot about the co creation of customer experience happens in the customer. And specifically in this case, in many cases frontline agents are co creating. And so that collaboration Spirit makes a lot of sense as to why you've been drawn to this. What are some either that scientific method that you're describing, or, in general, how have you created an experience that customers have wanted? In your past? What are some examples of that?

Adam Haesler: 9:52

Yeah, so I mean, I think it really just keeps coming back to that scientific method that I've come in. At and thinking about, what is it? They're asking me? And then asking myself, do I actually have enough clarification on what they've asked me for. So a lot of times, especially back in the old days, I get these very vague requests. It's like, I just want this right. And this is, this is before I was working at software companies, and customers would assume that that you knew what they were thinking about what they were talking about, and nine times out of 10, it might set off a reaction of Oh, I do know what they're talking about, and go and just deliver, again, deliver an output. And then honestly, nine times out of 10, if I did that pass, it would result in a follow up. It's like, oh, I didn't mean that. Or oh, no, that's not solving my problem. And so coming full circle with your question, I guess it's really about not taking a no assumptions approach to customer experience, and understanding that they're not coming to me, as a customer service, customer support person, because they want to, in an ideal world, they wouldn't have had to actually reach out to me at all. In fact, in a really ideal world, my job wouldn't exist, because there would be no need for it. You know, like, it's a little bit funny to say, but it is the reality that, you know, it's like, unfortunately, they're coming to me, because they needed me to solve some problem for them, that you

Rick Denton: 11:43

didn't use this word, but it read it hit my head, as you were saying it is that curiosity, that the scientific method requires a curiosity. And when you're have a customer coming to you, it's that curiosity that you're demonstrating of really wondering why what how is it that you've gotten to this situation customer and and I do chuckle That you know, that your role might not necessarily be needed, I still believe. And I think you do, too, that this role is always going to be needed, because we always are going to want a human interaction at a certain point. Yes, maybe some of the simpler things get resolved. But I want my human when it's complex. And, you know, listeners, viewers, I'm not going to talk about Fort Lauderdale. Again, they've heard that example. It's still though is true. When my flight is canceled. I want a human I don't want to but Yeah,

Adam Haesler: 12:35

no kidding a and I see this a lot in that. We're defaulting to answering via email, unfortunately. And instead of picking up the phone, when we know that the phone really needs to be implemented in a situation.

Rick Denton: 12:51

Let's totally agree, I'm curious about some of that I've asked other guests before. And really, it's something that I think is vitally important here in 20/24. And I think it's kind of a death sentence, I think all of us realize that this isn't an important customer experience needs to deliver business results, otherwise, there's really no reason. And so how do you believe that the delivery of customer experience? And how can the delivery of customer experience affect business results?

Adam Haesler: 13:23

So it's interesting, you bring this up, because about a year, year and a half ago, I started up sort of a video series on LinkedIn called stop making them respond above the line. And really, it's so you're chuckling because I'm sure that you know what the reference is. In these emails from these tech companies, we get these emails and it says, Please respond above the line. And that's a little dotted line. My, my philosophy, my philosophy, a lot of my philosophy and CX is rooted in how do we make sure that we only need one response and not need the customer to ever actually have to respond back to us, you know, that often you get the thank you or whatever. But other than that, we actually should not ever need to have to have a conversation, although that, you know, in complex situations that's sometimes necessary. So what if we lived in a world where a customer never had to respond back? They got the response and the outcome at coming back to what I was talking about as with outcomes over outputs of exactly what they needed. And because I have as a customer of tech companies, I have experienced, basically every flaw every mistake could possibly be made. And I'm not faulting anybody, you know, it is what it is. We're all under a lot of pressure. Um, but I think that what's unfortunately happened in especially the support side of things, it's being driven by the wrong metric. And the wrong metric is number of tickets that get closed, as opposed to the number of tickets tickets solved. So what I like to say is we should shift from closing tickets to solving tickets. And so if we were to do that, and we were to focus on finding a metric, and even if that means, oh, we need to go to Zendesk and say, Hey, you don't have the right metric for me to measure. If we focused on solve tickets, we would have less reopen tickets, which means less time that those support people are spending on any one ticket and making sure that we're driving towards a better customer experience, because we're always focused on what does it mean for that customer to get exactly what they wanted, and in exactly the time they wanted it. And so when you talk about business results, as connected to what we're doing on the front lines, if we can reduce the amount of time and effort that we're having to put in on the front lines, then we free up, not only our time to maybe do other things, maybe improve the maybe we get involved with the actual strategy side of things. Or maybe we just get more clarity and more health, for ourselves to be able to be more focused on the next customer who's coming across our desk. Because if we are so bogged down, by the last request, that we actually have to get up, put our headset down and say, oh, yeah, I'm not going to be available for the next 10 minutes. All of a sudden, now you put more pressure on everybody else on the team. And it just ends up spiraling into what I would call a bit of a psychological or health mess on your team, unfortunately, and it just becomes more and more stress. So if we put more focus on to solve tickets, rather than closed tickets, then I think we would be driving better business results, as well as driving a better customer experience.

Rick Denton: 17:37

Adam, great example of going for that, that, that the outcome, not the outputs. And even you didn't say it, the cost cutting, right, you know, there's that element of it like these are, these are decisions that by improving experience, we can actually then create a scenario where the business result is it's a lower cost, or like you said, reposition costs to be applied to something that has a different opportunity for growth for the company. And so that's absolutely a tie to those business results that I see, I want to take you on a little change of pace here, the flight between Dallas, we're here in North Texas area, the Dallas Fort Worth airport in Vancouver's four to five hours. So it's not the worst flight in the world. But it's not the shortest flight in the world out there. And it can be nice to park at the first class lounge to take a little break either before or after the flight. So I'm going to ask you to join me here in the first class lounge, we'll move quickly here and hopefully have a little bit of fun. What is a dream travel occasion from your past?

Adam Haesler: 18:36

So dream travel location from my past would be to go back to South Africa where I visited to do two different things. Actually. One was to run a marathon again. But it was a lot of fun. You know, I'm running with Gazelle running right behind beside me. And across in front of me. It's one heck of a running group. Yeah, no kidding. Yeah. So I'd love to be able to go back there and re experience it from a deeper appreciation for what I was experiencing at a time and maybe didn't fully understand. So the other thing, and the reason I say that is because the other thing that I did was there was I actually worked in what's called a shanty town within Cape Town in South Africa. And I was helping people learn how to just simply use a computer to write a document because that's a core skill of anybody that wants to be able to get in at an entry level of a job. Wow. Okay. And so it was really cool for me to experience that at the time. But I don't think I fully appreciated the effect and the impact that I was having on the people's lives and the potential of what I could actually do as sort of dropped into this situation

Rick Denton: 20:02

better. That's awesome. So yeah, that was that's what I'm so used to getting the question and it is beautiful destinations around the world. And heck, if I answered it, I wouldn't answer it with the same social impact that you described there. That's a well, not only a social impact, but I certainly haven't run with gazelles in a trip from my past. What is a dream travel location you've not been to yet.

Adam Haesler: 20:25

Um, I've often thought of going to Europe, but more specifically to Italy, as I used to be like a really, really extreme long distance runner. So think beyond marathon. So 50k 50 mile 100 mile type races, and they have beautiful mountains in Italy, as well as France and Switzerland. They're all part of major races that are a nice long distance circuit. Now, I'm not a long distance runner anymore, but I'd love to be able to go out and experience sure mountains because they look to me, like an amazing experience.

Rick Denton: 21:11

We all know that Italy is uh, certainly known for its food, what is your favorite thing of yours to eat?

Adam Haesler: 21:18

I have to come to what I just started doing most recently, which was preparing grilled cheese. i Alright, you know, it's so weird because I used to eat grilled cheese when I was young. But I just never picked it up. But once I became an adult, I just forgot about it. And then you know, it's just like, it's been something that's been in the back of my mind for a little while. And, um, you gotta go and try and make grilled cheese. And I love it. Okay, let's go and do it.

Rick Denton: 21:49

That's awesome. And I gotta tell you, I've never given up my love of grilled cheese. So Adam, I'm glad that you have rediscovered it. Let's go the other way. What is something growing up that you hated as a kid but were forced to eat? Oh,

Adam Haesler: 22:02

that'd be vegetables. For sure. I would say, although my mom did a great job most of the time, because she always made like cheese sauce, or whatever it was that she ran it to help me eat it. But then there, I used to be the worst picky eater, like when I was, you know, around five, three to five years old. I wouldn't eat anything other than hot dogs and KD. So unfortunately, for my mother, I don't know how to put up with it. So

Rick Denton: 22:33

that answered that serve the body? Well, but it serves the kids. Well, for sure. So

Adam Haesler: 22:38

luckily, I grew out of it a little bit a little bit more a little bit more as the years went on. Yeah,

Rick Denton: 22:43

I'm glad to hear that. I'm certainly glad to hear that. Let's close out the first class lounge here. What is one travel item not including your phone and not including your passport that you will not leave home without?

Adam Haesler: 22:54

I think that would be my my laptop. So I often go to the local libraries to be able to work is just because I get too distracted when I'm at home. And what I never leave home without is my laptop and my phone. It is my connection back to you know, the digital space. And I have tried, you know, using state library computers, and it just doesn't really work as well, because it doesn't feel like

Rick Denton: 23:31

okay, Adam, I'm going to allow that answer the laptops very close to the phone. But I am gonna allow it because you're right, it is a way to connect and stay working. And we've allowed judges have allowed the laptop answer for that question in the past as well. I can see why being making sure you don't leave without that as vital. I do the same thing. That's one of the things that I have to have with me. Let's talk about customer experience again. Yeah, it didn't great out there. Right. As customers, we know that things are broken, we know that it's there. There's a lot that can be improved. So I'm curious, in your perspective, what are companies missing in customer experience today? And how can they improve it?

Adam Haesler: 24:11

I think the big thing a I hate to harp on it, but it because I've mentioned it before a couple of times, but the thing that I see a lot of is number one just not reading the customer's request and actually responding to the requests that they've asked for, or getting clarification on that request. And number two is doing more experimentation. So really understanding the problem from the technical side or the SOT you know, even just the user interface side and understanding all the different ways that the problem, the problem could be surfacing to actually identify that root cause because what I'm getting a lot of interest I have responses from people in customer support is the quick answer that has been templated and then fed back to me. And unfortunately, yes, it might solve maybe at 75% of those tickets. But unfortunately, I've included some sort of information, which should imply to them, oh, wait a minute, this is not that problem. Because, you know, being customer support person, and you're probably the same way, I've already gone and done the testing, that could probably be done for all the user interface side of things. So likely, there is a need for you, which I'm trying to imply in my support ticket to go and do deeper investigation.

Rick Denton: 25:49

You're making me laugh? Because I'm like, yeah, yes, I've already rebooted the machine, can we go? So if that's what's broken, and that's something that companies can improve, knowing that you're looking for your next opportunity? How can you help a company improve on that?

Adam Haesler: 26:04

Yeah, so I mean, it's interesting, because I've never explicitly said it. But what I have done in positions before is I've actually had conversations with colleagues, once I come into a company, helping them solve a problem through the lens of scientific method. So not teaching them like scientific method terminology, but helping them work through the problem from the top down of like, asking the question, what is it that we're actually trying to identify the root cause of how many different ways could that actually have happened based on all the different aspects of the software that we know of? And then, you know, maybe rooting out what is the most likely cause and then doing the thing that I don't think that most people are doing, which is actually going in testing it in my own sandbox? Because it's that last step, that gets us from, say, a five, six different response ticket to a two, maybe three response ticket?

Rick Denton: 27:22

I see. Okay. And then that focus on reducing the back and forth, that's something I'm hearing loud and clear with you is, how can we reduce the back and forth? Yeah, well, Adam, we're coming kind of close to the end of our time here, knowing, knowing that you're looking for that next opportunity. What is next for you with customer experience?

Adam Haesler: 27:43

Yeah, that's such a great question. So what I loved about working at fusion, which is last place I was working at, was that I had a bit of a hybrid role. So I was doing the traditional customer success, customer support type responsibilities in the mornings. And then I was doing more strategic, customer journey work, understanding how all the tech needs to come together, to work in harmony to create this great experience, as well as all the opinions of other stakeholders and all that kind of jazz. So I'd really love to be able to work in, you know, a startup that's maybe 10 to 30 people large, that really believes in collaboration, and giving people the autonomy to go and do their best work. And really have that flexibility to maybe explore things outside of my role. So even if I get a customer support role, being able to explore things in the more strategic side of things, just because they understand that I've maybe done it before. And they understand that I understand the value of doing that kind of work, which often unfortunately, doesn't get done in smaller companies just because nobody's got time and nobody, and maybe have the knowledge for it. And

Rick Denton: 29:08

I like the index. I like that. Well, Adam, I love the morning in the afternoon, the blend, excuse me that you're describing. And I certainly am optimistic that that will be what's next for you with customer experience. When someone wants to get in touch with you when they want to learn a little bit more about your approach or what you're targeting and how that might support them. What's the best way for folks to get in touch with you?

Adam Haesler: 29:32

They can reach me on LinkedIn, I am likely the only Adam Haesler on there, but my mug is on picture profile and simply can't miss it.

Rick Denton: 29:42

And I will have your LinkedIn URL in the show notes folks. Just scroll down click that. Get connected with Adam and learn how he can help you create business results from the customer support and customer success that he's describing. Adam really enjoyed having you on the show today. Thank you for being willing Be a part of this first experiment, right? This is the first one we've done. It may be Episode 150, whatever. But this is the first one we've done. And I am deeply appreciative that you are willing to be come on here, be vulnerable, be transparent in your views around customer experience, what you're targeting, and absolutely rooting for you and securing that next opportunity. And I hope that CX passport has a little bit of a little bit of push and helping that come to fruition. Adam, thank you for being on CX passport.

Adam Haesler: 30:31

Thank you. Have an amazing day. And thank you to all your viewers.

Rick Denton: 30:41

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. If you liked today’s episode I have 3 quick next steps for you Click subscribe on the CX Passport youtube channel or your favorite podcast app Next leave a comment below the video or a review in your favorite podcast app so others can find and and enjoy CX Passport too Then, head over to cxpassport.com website for show notes and resources that can help you create tangible business results by delivering great customer experience. Until next time, I’m Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.