Jordan Hooker: 0:00

This is such an incredible spot to be the impact you can have the things you can do. The experiences you can build for people that cause them to love your company and also just have a good support person. If I know I can make somebody's day better by their experience with me and my company, it's, it's all the better

Rick Denton: 0:23

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode we’ll talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. Ah CX passport listeners thank you again for all the love the support you have been showing to our CX open to work series guests, your engagements making a real difference helping our guests actually move forward in their careers. This is real folks you're helping and it is greatly greatly appreciated. Joining us today is Jordan hooker, coming with over a decade specializing in customer experience across support and account management. From boosting customer satisfaction at Applied value technologies to leading innovative support strategies at Noyo. And booster fuels, Jordan knows what it takes to make customers happy. Head over to the banner on Jordan's LinkedIn page seriously, scroll on the show notes, click there. And you'll see this phrase setting the table for an exceptional customer experience. There's a whole lot of meaning in that phrase, from the spirit of hospitality. To the look, we're going to roll up our sleeves let's create this from scratch mentality Jordan has and that he seeks to continue doing for companies support programs. In a fun bit of small worldliness Jordan recently moved from my current hometown of Frisco, Texas, to another part of the country that I know well as well. Raleigh, North Carolina, beautiful place and what a fun small world. Get ready to be inspired by what we can learn from Jordan today. And I want you to start to think how our community can help accelerate Jordans path forward. Jordan, welcome to CX passport.

Jordan Hooker: 2:28

Thanks for Thanks for having me.

Rick Denton: 2:30

Let's jump right into it. You have focused on customer experience. What Why What draws you to customer experience? Why is this important to you?

Jordan Hooker: 2:39

Yeah, sure. I think the place where it actually really started is particularly around food and restaurants, as somebody who very much enjoys going out to eat, sitting in a restaurant and holidays? Well, absolutely. I have found that that experience has, if if a restaurant could send an incredible experience, it just makes the whole thing even better. I mean, their foods incredible, and the service is horrible. It's it leaves a little bit of a bad taste in your mouth. So I think for me, I learned a lot just about that experience and found that I was constantly thinking about that as I went out to eat and I was in businesses and that type of thing. And so as I got into customer experience and customer support, and also had a COO that really invested in me really early in my career, I just realized that this is such an incredible spot to be in. In a business, the impact you can have the things you can do, the experiences you can build for people that cause them to love your company, and also just have a good day. I mean, as a support person, if I know I can make somebody's day better by their experience with me and my company. It's it's all the better. So I think those are really the things that have drawn me to to the side of the business. Yeah,

Rick Denton: 3:57

what I'm smiling about there as well. There were a couple of things about that one, yeah, me too. Restaurants, find me enjoying a bevy in a meal for sure. And I can see how that has created that hospitality spirit that you've chosen to represent as your signature quote, they're sitting in your banner. I'm gonna ask you something that you you brought to mind at the very end, because a lot of folks think about customer experience and specifically customer support. They don't really think about a chance to have a great day. So how have you adopted that sort of positive attitude towards No, no customer experience is a chance for me to have a positive day as opposed to this is a day that I'm just gonna get beat down by customers talk to me about that mentality.

Jordan Hooker: 4:38

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think the reality is in any customer support role, people are gonna get beat down, it's gonna happen. But I find the more I can help teams and then myself even as I'm on a support desk, look for ways that I could make someone's day better. So let me give you an example from a previous team member. When I was at booster fuels, we were mobile fuel company going into people's offices dealing up their cars, we had a customer that honestly had a really poor experience with us, our team did a did a poor job as they were serving that customer. And one of my support reps, unbeknownst to me, found out that this had happened, worked with the customer resolve it. And then the next day actually took it upon herself to go buy a bouquet of purple flowers, which was our brand color, and actually delivered them to the office as this customer that just happened to be down the road from our headquarters, out of the sheer fact that she just wanted to make this woman's day better. So that customer became a lifelong customer love their service. And so just constantly thinking about those ways that we can do that. And when I tell that story that support rep blushes a little bit, and she wishes I wouldn't share that story. But she also loves the fact that she was able to have that opportunity. And so looking for ways like that to make people's day better, and also make my day better. And as a manager that definitely made my day better. Seeing a team member do that. So I think that's the ways I mean, maybe just be one person every day that you get that opportunity with one person every once in a while. But what an incredible opportunity to do that for customers.

Your CX Passport Captain: 6:18

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Rick Denton: 6:44

Yeah, Jordan, you're right, there is that opportunity. And that is what a delightful and and I mean, the phrase often is surprise and delight. And it is that moment to be able to do that. Now we know and listeners and viewers, you know, that's not necessarily scalable. But the opportunity is there you can you can have that one moment. What about you, Jordan? When when you think about creating an experience for your customers like in the past? How have you created an experience that your customers wanted? Not just that surprise and delight sort of thing? That's great, but not sustainable? What about sort of that creation of an experience? That is? Well, I'll just call it sustainably good.

Jordan Hooker: 7:21

Sure. Yeah, absolutely. I think the key element there for me that I've learned in my career is about how customer support partners with the rest of the organization. And so what does it look like to develop a customer support program that has a really strong feedback loop in the product. So going back to booster fuels is a really great example, actually rolled up into our product department and report it to our chief product officer. And so Oh, I spent a lot of time learning how to talk product ease and engineer ease, which became a really cool opportunity to then teach my team how to do the same thing. So we got really good at what does it look like to actually learn what our customers challenges are really understand this in a deep way, and then take those back into our team and continue to improve our products and our services. And so that's something I really focus on in my work is, what does it look like for customer support to not just be cost center, necessary evil, but to be a partner to the business that actually develops not products and services in a vacuum, but products and services that customers are like, this is exactly what I asked for. And I didn't even realize to ask for it. But somehow you knew it's what I wanted. And it's just because our team has gotten so good at paying attention to those details. Oh my gosh,

Rick Denton: 8:36

I'm having trouble sitting in my chair. I've got to figure out a way to make this a sit stand desk, because my gosh, you're making me bounce and listeners viewers that have listened for a while know why? Because you have hit almost on one of the phrases that I use, but definitely the theme. And that is companies need to stop treating their contact center as a cost center and instead treated as a customer insights center. Yeah. And it sounds like you had what maybe I don't want to use the word unique, but let's call it rarer experience to be a part of that. Did you find given that you've been in some other companies? Did you find that it was different? Was it a little odd or just kind of normal to be embedded inside of the product organization?

Jordan Hooker: 9:17

Yeah, it was actually really strange. It was a really incredible experience working for a leader that was also just also an incredible leader, but with my experience and other companies where I hadn't done that there have been so many roadblocks to building that inside of the company. So having just already been embedded there makes such a world of difference and the work that we got to do.

Rick Denton: 9:40

I liked it. So the ordered structure supported that i i In general, when we talk about this customer insights, insights alone are not necessarily business results. you've alluded to it a little bit what you're describing, but overall, how would you say that that delivery of customer experience actually influences business? This results, not an NPS going up, but actually dollars, either dollars made or dollars saved. Yeah,

Jordan Hooker: 10:06

I think one of the really critical ways and that is, as you know, we try to move away from this idea that the support contact centers should just be considered a cost center, the more we learn to build products and services that our customers actually want, and actually work really well and actually solve for problems, we're going to reduce the cost of the support team, generally, I mean, we're going to have fewer tickets coming in, because our products are built better, or services are built better our customers have what they need. And they don't run into the challenges that they necessarily previously would. So they got one just really key way that by developing support programs that actually helped that product and services improve, we reduced just the cost of that general.

Rick Denton: 10:50

And I can see Jordan that we are using an apple. Just those that are watching saw this, those that are listening did not suddenly, his point was so good, that it was celebrated. And the the computer itself celebrated what he was doing. Was there a particular Can you think of one particular feature, or perhaps something that customers are really bugged about in either booster fuels or any of your other places where that customer insight made a direct change on either the product or service the company in general? Yeah, then affect those business results?

Jordan Hooker: 11:29

Yeah, I can think about one really interesting example, in going back to booster fuels, which has just been such an incredible experience in my career. One of the challenges we had in our app is customers were indicating where their car was parked at their office building, we'd have a map, and you had to note it here. And obviously, because of regulations, there were certain places we could feel there were certain places you could, and we used colors in the map to demonstrate those things. We started to hear from a few customers that were like, Hey, I'm colorblind. And there's this really particular shade of this color that you're using it every time I use the app, I can't put this pin down. And I don't know why. And so we started to discover that we didn't have the accessibility built in that we needed inside of the product. And so our sports team, and I mean, it was a simple solution, go back to products and say, Hey, we need to think about how we do these colors, did some research understood how to better do that and improve that and solve that problem for customers. And so the I mean, easy, easy saw, but for those individual customers that made the world of difference in using our product.

Rick Denton: 12:45

Wow, that's I love that. It does get at a couple of themes. One is just customer inside, boom, things that a product team might not have. Maybe they weren't, you know, equipped with or staffed with people inside the team, if your team is not representative of your entire custom race, and sometimes, well, you don't have enough humans to be able to do it. Right, you're gonna have to require your customers to give you that input. And what a great pathway in there. I love that story. Now, on that story that I'm going to take you on a total change of pace here we are having the opportunity to stop down in the first class lounge. I don't know if the booster fuels trucks drove far enough that they needed that break. But yeah, I'm sure you've been a part of travel maybe between Frisco in North Carolina, that you would love to stop in the lounge. Let's do that here. We're going to move quickly here and have a little bit of fun. What is a dream travel location from your past?

Jordan Hooker: 13:37

That's easy. Paris. We took our honeymoon in Paris back in 2018. And I there, there are days that I just sit and think about that delightful experience for sure.

Rick Denton: 13:48

That's awesome. I smiled Jordan, because while we're recording this on Thursday, next Tuesday, there will be a guest who is Parisian and she will be talking about that because this is the Summer Olympics. Right. And that is coming up. I am glad that you chose to do your honeymoon in a beautiful city at a time when it was not the Olympics because my understanding is everybody's getting out of there too. Sure, because of the crowds. What about going forward? What is a dream travel vacation? You've not been to yet?

Jordan Hooker: 14:16

Yeah, I think the one that's really panned right now is Italy. I really love to just take a two or three week trip and just get on trains go all over the place. Just really relax. And obviously you did tell the pasta drink a lot.

Rick Denton: 14:31

I just want to sit here for a second. Think about being there. Again, back to the restaurants. Exactly. And I liked that you chose two to three weeks to write you know, it can be such a temptation, especially first time okay, I'm gonna hit Venice. I'm gonna hit Florence. I'm gonna hit Rome and then I'm out to do that slow travel that you're describing. Weeks. That's the way to do Italy. Well, excellent. We've talked a lot about food. This may be a hard one for you. What is a favorite thing of yours to eat?

Jordan Hooker: 14:57

That's actually not that hard. And for a long time I was in bed heiress to say it because I felt like a fat girl but it's pizza. I give me pizza just about any form and I will be happy. Hey,

Rick Denton: 15:07

we welcome both the the 55 year olds and the five year old food styles here. It is an open and welcoming first class lounge here. So we'll make sure there's a pizza sitting there on the bar waiting for you. What are going the other way though? What is something growing up that you were forced to eat? But you hate it as a kid?

Jordan Hooker: 15:26

Yeah, and for me, that was brussel sprouts. Yes. You know. But then, interestingly enough to discover that brussel sprouts are actually really good. If you prepare them the correct way. You look very shocked to hear this.

Rick Denton: 15:40

No, I just thought I liked you. And now I don't like you anymore.

Jordan Hooker: 15:42

I'm in Frisco. I'm gonna have to come make you some good Brussels. No, trust me. I

Rick Denton: 15:46

have a spouse who loves brussels sprouts. And yes, and I get it. Yeah, they've been engineered to be less bitter and there's no preparation. I don't care. I still hate it. And don't stop trying people I don't like boy, I thought you were on my side, Jordan. And now you have left my side. But that's all right. I mentioned the welcoming it as a welcoming Wow, Jesus, even for those of the guests that are just simply wrong. Let's what is we're gonna we're gonna have to leave the lounge. Unfortunately, back to travel. What is one travel item not including your phone, not including your passport that you will not leave home without?

Jordan Hooker: 16:20

Well, my answer to this was going to be if it's international, especially knowing the closest US embassy or consulate that but yeah, I think we'll go with shoes. I as we were on that trip in Paris, I think we we discovered very quickly how important it was to have shoes that you were actually prepared to walk nine to 10 miles a day. So definitely good shoes.

Rick Denton: 16:49

Hey, Jordan, I like both answers. Both answers certainly apply. Because it is it is wise to be a smart and safe traveler. And then it is also wise to be a comfortable traveler, especially in the temptation in a city like Paris, where to be fashionable may not be the same as the most comfortable of shoes. Or why. Why is to have that that good walk in pair because lord knows when we're in the cities, we're doing a ton of walking. Let's get back to customer experience a little bit what are just in general? Yeah. What are companies really missing in customer experience today? And how can they improve on that?

Jordan Hooker: 17:23

Yeah, I think it goes back to a lot of our earlier conversation. I think that what most companies are missing, and obviously in a challenging economic environment, particularly for early stage startups, where I've spent most of my career, you got to think about priorities. And unfortunately, customer support does not often get the priority that it should. And so I think that the areas where we could very much improve is to realize how much value I mean, it is a goldmine of value, if you teach your people how to actually glean that how to go mined that gold from customers, and bring it back into the business. And then also listen, having had the opportunity to work with a product team more directly, I was able to build that trust and camaraderie. But in situations where you don't necessarily roll up into that same organization, it can be a little bit hard. I think for product teams, sometimes when the customer support team comes in and goes, Hey, I think this could be a really good idea. They've got 85 priorities already on the roadmap, they don't necessarily want to hear it. So I think building that culture that says, hey, our customer support team, they're the customer experts, when they speak, we should listen. And building that back into the org I think is the more we can develop that in companies. I think the better we would be developing those products.

Rick Denton: 18:42

I wouldn't you certainly have a sympathetic ear in me here. Right? You as a CX person? Absolutely. I want to ask you how you can specifically help that next company get better in that area. But I want to ask a question first. And that is why why do you think companies when it is so at least to you and me? It's so obvious that that gold exists? Why are companies not mining that gold? I

Jordan Hooker: 19:08

think there's probably two layers of that, especially in the early stage high growth startup, I think you often have founders that think that they know exactly what the market wants. I mean, it's their baby, they've spent significant amount of time at first, that probably is true. But as you get to three, four years, a couple of rounds of funding in it can be really hard, I think to let go of that. And so I think we unfortunately then that gets built into a lot of our teams of, well, the CEO, the founder knows. And so what does it look like for founders, I think to start to say, hey, I don't know I actually hired you because you're going to be the one that knows. So what does it look like from the top down to build that culture? I think that's one layer of it. I think the other layer of it is just that I think costs and mean just the reality of the environment and the economy we're in. It can be really easy to deprioritize this area thinking we'll get back to it later. But unfortunately, for most companies, you don't get back to it later, you just continue with the subpar service that you've, you've delivered.

Rick Denton: 20:19

The reason I smile was not because that right, that's not actually that funny. But I was thinking about a lot of folks that said, Yeah, I'll get back to the gym. I've just got a busy time at work right now. And I'll get back to the gym. And then suddenly, 334 years passed by and it's Jim, what is that? You know, there's, you gave me a little bit of a call back. And I wish I remember the episode number, I'll put it in the show notes. And there was a former guest, April Ober stellar of woom. Bikes. And she told the story of her co founder, that he was taking customer support calls while he was mowing his lawn on Saturday, I stopped stop mowing lawn, take customer support calls. And so they do exist in the startup world. It's just to your point, it can be very rare. So let's, let's talk about you, you know, this exists, you know, the why, or there's some some whys behind it. How can you how can Jordan help companies find and improve on what's missing in customer experience today?

Jordan Hooker: 21:17

Yeah, I think for me, having had the really incredible opportunities I've had, and a lot of early stage startups to build customer support, as built from series A through series D. So a lot of what works, I've seen a lot of what doesn't work. I've seen a lot of what works in one place didn't work in another and vice versa. And so I think, for me the opportunity to come in, it's really honestly, to bring a pretty strong roadmap of understanding what are the different routes we could go to get to that ideal culture? I've seen it in a lot of different places. I've accomplished it with teams and a lot of different places. But I think for me, that's a lot of whatever into the table is that experience and understanding of a it doesn't have to look the same for everyone. And it won't look the same for everyone for every company. But what are the different paths we could take to get to that type of support program?

Rick Denton: 22:09

Good stuff I'm hearing hearing that? Well, Jordan, you need to make sure and take that clip and put that on your LinkedIn page, because that was just a brilliant summary of look, here's how we can solve this. Well, what's next? So you're in the open to work hashtag right now in the customer experience space? What's next for you?

Jordan Hooker: 22:28

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think, still, you know, looking for those opportunities. I'm also, it's been actually really cool to have this period to also go do some consulting work and work with some companies to kind of keep myself sharp and understand the things that are happening out in the market. So that's really kind of where I'm focused right now. And building these two different paths to the working in the space.

Rick Denton: 22:53

Is there a particular area and customer experience that you want to target a particular type of company is there's something that's kind of the roadmap of this is where I want to be next?

Jordan Hooker: 23:02

Yeah, good question. I honestly don't know that. I would say there is I love early early stage startups. That's really where I thrive and where I function. But I'm kind of industry agnostic. I've actually enjoyed the fact that I've gotten to build in three or four different industries, and understand the different challenges that people are having in those different spaces.

Rick Denton: 23:23

All right. Well, I certainly hear one thing, and that is a theme of build. And that you you certainly thrive in that building that creating that aspect of Jordan, thanks for joining today. Like this was a lot of fun, a wide ranging in again, no, we'll let the brussel sprout thing go. But I'm really, you gave me some beyond just you know, open to work elements. You gave me some nuggets of thought and certainly some nuggets of smiles when it comes to how a company can derive actual tangible real business value from their customer experience. If folks wanted to get to know a little bit more about you your views on customer experience or the like, what's the best way for folks to get in touch with you?

Jordan Hooker: 24:03

Yeah, that's great question. LinkedIn is definitely the best place. Most of the content that I've published, is there and you can find all my contact information there as well. Awesome. Well,

Rick Denton: 24:12

of course, you know, listeners and viewers that will definitely be in the shownotes scroll down, click the link and you will be taken to Jordan page where you'll see that fantastic quote there sitting in the banner Jordan, it was a delight having this conversation with you. Thank you for being on CX password.

Jordan Hooker: 24:28

Thanks right appreciate you being having me here.

Rick Denton: 24:36

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. If you liked today’s episode I have 3 quick next steps for you Click subscribe on the CX Passport youtube channel or your favorite podcast app Next leave a comment below the video or a review in your favorite podcast app so others can find and and enjoy CX Passport too Then, head over to cxpassport.com website for show notes and resources that can help you create tangible business results by delivering great customer experience. Until next time, I’m Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.