Tucker Wakabayashi: 0:00

One thing a lot of companies are missing is true empathy and treating the customer like a person instead of a data point or a resource. Customer

Rick Denton: 0:10

Experience wisdom, a dash of travel talk. We've been cleared for takeoff. The best meals are served outside and require passport. I know y'all hear me say this often, but I am once again, Truly, truly, deeply excited about today's guest as we create another open to work episode, this one's going to take a different view, though, as today's guest isn't changing from one CX role to another. Today's guest is choosing to enter the customer experience world as his first Post University role. Today we get to chat with Tucker Wakabayashi, a recent graduate of University of North Texas, and someone whose last name you might be familiar with as he is, the son of Dennis wakayashi. This also means that it is the first time that both father and son have appeared on episodes of CX password. Dennis's is way back in episode 68 and I will, of course, have that link in the show notes below. You know I was actually in the walkaby ashi house a few years ago on a working session, and out of nowhere, an amazing impromptu lunch was just put in front of me that I later found out was prepared by Tucker. That was some of the best carbonara I have had. Y'all seriously. So not only is Tucker a customer experience aficionado, he's also a fantastic chef, and as he and I were preparing for this episode, getting ready for the recording, he told me about the fact that he taught a cooking class for kids while he was in college. I love the idea of him helping those fresh faces get excited about a new activity. You know, that's kind of what I hope to hear about today. I spent so long in this customer experience field, it can be hard for me to remember what it's like going into it as a fresh face, with untarnished expectations, with hopes, with fears, with concerns, with dreams. That fresh perspective isn't one we've heard on CX passport before. It'll be fun to get into that. Today, Tucker comes to us from the Upper East Side in New York, where he recently moved to start his customer experience journey. Let me honest, I'm kind of jealous as I sit here as my 50 plus year old self in a suburb of Dallas, imagining what might it be like to be in that early stage of my career in one of the most vibrant cities in the world. If nothing else I know, Tucker has access to some of the best food in the world just steps from his front door that might come up in our chat today, Tucker, welcome to CX passport.

Tucker Wakabayashi: 2:35

Thank you, Rick, thank you for having me on this

Rick Denton: 2:38

is this is going to be a real treat. And yeah, folks, a little peel back behind the curtain as we were getting started here, Tucker said, you know, Hey, is it okay if you hear some of the New York ambient noise, I'm like, No, that's awesome. It makes me feel like I'm there, and I hope you the listener and the viewer. If we get a few sirens coming into the background, that'll make you feel like we're having a conversation at Cafe right there in a sidewalk in New York City. Tucker, I'm curious, especially because this is something that's you're starting, you're choosing to start in this world. So what is it? What draws you to customer experience? Why is this field important

Tucker Wakabayashi: 3:11

to you? Well, I feel like I might have some kind of innate interest because of who my dad is. I remember I was in probably about middle school when I started hearing my dad talk about CX all the time. And I don't know it's partially because that's when he was getting into CX and it was starting to blow up, but also because that's about the age when you start becoming a more conscious human with thoughts outside of toys. But I've been hearing my dad talk about CX, and my mom's also in advertising, and so that's led to them talk about, you know, advertising, marketing industry, at the dinner table, or while we're waiting in line somewhere, just all the time. It's not really been steeped in,

Rick Denton: 3:59

I like that, like that, like we're waiting in line grumbling about the experience that they're having. So yes, oh my

Tucker Wakabayashi: 4:04

gosh. I can't tell you how many times we've been at a restaurant or somewhere and my dad's like, you know what? This is bad CX, or, Oh, this is good CX. It's

Rick Denton: 4:14

like going to a restaurant with a food inspector. You just can't have the the authentic experience. So yeah, so I can see that. Sorry to interrupt the flow, but I'm just sitting here chuckling about that. Chuckling about that image of the walk by a She's family dissecting the customer experience that they're getting at a restaurant.

Tucker Wakabayashi: 4:28

Yeah, no, it's, it's all of us now, because that's just how my sister and I have been raised. My sister's a freshman in college, but even when she was five years ago, you know, middle school, early high school, she'd be sitting there. She said, You know what? This is pretty good. CX,

Rick Denton: 4:44

yeah, and so I understand that, but I'll use my example. I grew up the son of a physician, and I'm not a physician, as one can tell. And actually, if you are in as someone who needs medical services, you should be thankful that I am not a physician as organic chemist. And sell bio, explained to me in college that I would not be a physician, but it's one thing to be exposed to it, and so you've got that background, and yet you as an adult, are choosing this own path for you. So what is it about this world that makes Tucker want to be in customer experience? Why is this important to you?

Tucker Wakabayashi: 5:18

Well, when I started college. I started as an economics major, and I liked it fine enough. I found it interesting. But when I took the first intro to marketing class that all business majors are required to take, I felt at home. It was the first class where I was I felt like I wanted to be there, even if it wasn't for a grade, and I felt like I was naturally good at it. And so after that first class, I switched my major to marketing, and as I delved into it in college, and I was lucky enough to work part time with my dad as I was going through college, so I could get some more hands on experience. And as I looked at all the different areas of marketing, and I dipped my toes in the water, I realized that CX is what I find most interesting, and I think it's because it's the most big picture, all encompassing idea of quote, unquote marketing, even though it's really more of an all encompassing business function, from, you know, advertising, marketing, sales to finance to supply chain logistics, it's really the business as a whole, as it pertains to the customer. And I think that's fascinating on a psychological level.

Rick Denton: 6:43

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Tucker Wakabayashi: 8:06

Well, I've had a lot of different kinds of experience with, you know, frontline customer facing jobs. Okay? And so my first job, I worked at a PI five. I don't know if you know it, it's, I know it absolutely Chipotle style, but it's a pizza place, and so I'm up there interacting with the customers. It's customer facing, but still food. And that left a lot of interaction on the table, where you tried to make the experience as good as possible, but then I moved to a fine dining restaurant, and then I was in the back, and it was a little more interesting, because I was working as a chef, so all of my ability to create a good customer experience had no interaction with the customer, particularly about the product, and So I had to take a real different approach. It was just very results driven. I feel

Rick Denton: 9:07

can we at risk of interrupting a flow here? I'm very interested in that, because the there's, it's definitely true that, in my opinion, all roles affect the cut, even like the person who's doing the accounting books. Well, that affects the customer in ways, maybe less direct than other roles, but you had that customer in my face and sometimes probably aggressively so other times friendly, Lee, if I can make up a word so, and you had the ability to impact the customer when you weren't facing them talking about those differences. Did you feel like you were actually delivering customer experience when you were in back of house? Or was that more of a later sort of feeling of that realization? How did you how did you feel the difference between front of house and back of house when it came to the delivery of experience? Well, front

Tucker Wakabayashi: 9:54

of house, it's a lot more performative, and not just in, you know, put this. Smile on your face. Oh, how can I help you? But things like changing your gloves when a new customer comes up so they feel like everything is cleaner, even if you put the gloves on for one customer before, and it wouldn't make a difference. You haven't touched anything. There are no germs, just the action of having them watch you change your gloves makes them feel like they're getting cleaner and more specific product to them, and then back of house, it really was product based. I feel they order something, and I have to just make it as good as possible, and that's all I can do. I have to provide them with the best thing they can, and then it's out of my hands. And so it's really like, if you think about it, like a big company who has factories, I'm just in R and D and in manufacturing, and I'm making sure it's the best thing, and then sales and marketing takes it from there. Yeah, felt like,

Rick Denton: 11:06

Okay, so let's, let's expand on that a little bit. And I'm definitely those that have listened to my open to work episodes know that I'm way off script here, if you will, because you're saying some things that are interesting now that you've done both, and now that you have expanded even some of the other things that you've done in customer experience. What would you want that back of house person, like, if you could go back and talk to yourself as back of house, then what would you want that person, you or that other person to know about their impact on customer experience?

Tucker Wakabayashi: 11:36

Well, I one thing is, I do think it's all about consistency. Okay, you want to make sure that it's special for each customer, but that can lead to inequities, and you really have to follow the script. And then, if I could go back and say something to myself, I would probably just say that you need to just do the work you know, have to focus on the job that needs to be done and do it to the best of your ability, and that's what I was doing, right? But it's more emotionless. I feel like, when you're just creating the product, it's harder to have that level of empathy because there's no interaction with the customer,

Rick Denton: 12:23

this is good. And I think that's I've had conversation with other guests about, how do we help those that aren't, in this case, front of house, but really just anyone who doesn't have the customer right there that interacting with how do you help them to feel it? And I think of it of that lens of, how do I help them feel it? But then I like what you're saying is, you could sort of think of it the reverse. They're seeing it as a process, they're seeing as a product. How can we sort of help them understand it from their mindset? And really getting into the the mindset of the person who isn't the customer face? I think sometimes I've sort of smugly as the CX person said, Well, of course, person who doesn't face the customer. Here's why, and I need to be thinking of it from their perspective. I like what you did there. When you think of Front of House, back of house, or even forget the restaurant, just in general, you're describing customer experience. How does that delivery affect actual business results? Because while the customer smile is great, that doesn't actually help the CFO in a for profit business, right?

Tucker Wakabayashi: 13:23

I think it all just hearkens back to customer satisfaction, okay? I mean customer lifetime value. You want to make sure that's as high as possible. So having repeat customers making sure that it's they have a good experience that they want to come back to and have again is important, because we all know it's cheaper to keep a customer than to get a new customer, and

Rick Denton: 13:53

we all know it. But for some reason, my gosh, there's a lot of attractiveness to that new customer, as opposed to focusing on keeping the existing so while you say that so matter of factly, I wanted to emphasize it, because you're right. A lot of companies need to hear that sentence even more.

Tucker Wakabayashi: 14:08

Maybe it's because I'm just fresh out of college, and that's what they've been drilling into us, that I haven't been disillusioned with returning customers yet.

Rick Denton: 14:18

That's actually that's encouraging to hear that that is so I wonder if that's having been I don't even want to answer how long it's been since I've been in school, but I am going to my 30th reunion this year. Oh, I just did answer how long it's been. I don't know that that was as much of a focus, as opposed to kind of the upfront marketing, the sales, that kind of stuff, as opposed to retention style. So keep in that same flow. How have you seen that retention really did drive business results in the businesses you've been a part

Tucker Wakabayashi: 14:43

of. Well, another job that I had that you mentioned earlier through college, I've taught kids cooking lessons. I love it, and it's so fun. Just to get into the nitty gritty in that business. Made most of our money through birthday parties on the weekends and events, and we offered weekly classes, because that's important, but we were losing money on classes for a while, and just because, you know, you have to pay for the instructor me to be there, and the ingredients, and there are less kids in the classes, and there are birthday parties, and so I started working there, and they were unprofitable, but I really focused on trying to make a good customer experience, both for the children and for the parents, which was kind of a tricky thing to do, because the kids just want to have Fun, and the parents want them to learn something. And after a couple months of me working there, and by the time I left, the weekly classes actually had become profitable, because people would come and try the classes, and they'd stick it out and keep coming for months and months every week. So it created profitability through consistency.

Rick Denton: 16:12

Tucker how wise and astute some of those last couple sentences were there, and that idea of and even there's another along with the consistency, the repeated, the loyalty aspect of it generating the turning from less profitable to more profitable. Absolutely, you dropped a little nugget that I want to come back to, about multiple customers in the same experience and having to deliver inside of an experience, two different flavors of that experience to two different types of customers, the parents and the kids. We'll come back to that, but we need a break. We need a chance to stop down here in the first class lounge. We haven't talked to any travel or anything like that, but it's time to take a little break from some of the heaviness of customer experience and real business talk and all that. Join me here in the first class lounge. We will move quickly here and have a little bit of fun. What is a dream travel location from your past?

Tucker Wakabayashi: 17:03

Well, the easy answer has to be Italy. Italy is just a wonderful place to go. But this past summer, I went to Curacao, little island, okay? It just off the coast of South America. It's in the ABC islands with Aruba Bonaire Curacao, and it is wonderful. They have such a unique culture. They have their own language that's only spoken on those little islands there, and even on Curacao. They have their own dialect of it's called Papiamentu papiamento that they're two different names. I don't know which one is, right, and it's a weird hybrid of, like, uh Dutch, I think, and uh Spanish and Portuguese and English. It's the only place, it's there, and it sounds like no other language you've heard before. And you know, it's a beach, yeah? Like,

Rick Denton: 18:00

and command Rick, it didn't matter if I didn't eat a thing or see a see a person. There's a beach there. I can appreciate that. What about the something that you're looking forward to? And whatever the future is, could be near term, could be long term. What's a dream travel location you've not been to yet?

Tucker Wakabayashi: 18:14

Well, I don't know if you could tell by the last name. I know I don't look it, but I am Japanese. In the summer, I'm going to Japan, so that's gonna be very fun.

Rick Denton: 18:25

Oh, how exciting. Long time listeners of you to know how much I celebrate Japan having been able to go there a couple years ago, and my son did a study abroad there. You'll love it. Oh my gosh, everything from the culture to the sites to the people to the food. Oh, you're gonna love every bit of it. Well, let's talk about food. What is a favorite thing of yours to eat.

Tucker Wakabayashi: 18:42

I could only eat one thing for the rest of my life. It would be pizza, and it's been that way for a long time. I'm glad that I moved to New York, which some people might argue has better pizza than Italy. They're two different styles. I would speak on that. I think they both have things to bring to the table, but I'd go pizza, and I

Rick Denton: 19:00

love it. It's hard not to turn down a really good slice of pie there, especially a New York one. What about the other direction? What's something you were forced to eat growing up, but you hated as a kid?

Tucker Wakabayashi: 19:10

Well, you know, I have a lot of experience in the culinary industry, and it's a passion of mine. I'm always cooking at home and experimenting with new things, and that comes from a love for food. I never really had any foods I didn't like when I was growing up, for the most part, especially ones that I didn't that I was forced to eat because I like just about everything. So if I didn't like something, my parents would let it slide. When I was a little kid, I didn't really like peanuts. I didn't like the the flavor of peanuts, and then nuts in general, just texturally, there was something I didn't like, but now I like it, so it's, Oh, good.

Rick Denton: 19:52

I'm glad you've come around to those, because I can put, I eat quite a bit of that, that category of food for sure. Tugger, it's time to leave the first. Last lounge, sadly, what is one travel item, not including your phone and not including your passport that you will not leave home without? Well,

Tucker Wakabayashi: 20:08

it would be easy to take a gimme answer like wallet or phone charger, but if I had to say anything, I'd go with my backpack. I like to carry things.

Rick Denton: 20:29

Tiger, I like to carry things myself. As you said, backpack, I immediately thought of Dora, the explorer who has inspired many generations to get out there. And so I'm now singing the backpack song in my head, but I promise I will not torture you, nor the listeners, nor the viewers with the backpack song in mind,

Tucker Wakabayashi: 20:45

singing in my head now too. What have you done? I'm glad to have dropped

Rick Denton: 20:49

the ear worm on you and perhaps all of the listeners and viewers as well. Tucker, let's go back to that comment that you made about having to create an experience for the parents and for the kids. Tell me and be transparent here. Was that a conscious choice, like you walked in, you're like, Okay, I've got to do this. Or did it manifest sort of organically? How did you go about creating that dual experience inside of a singular experience? Well,

Tucker Wakabayashi: 21:16

I had some awareness to it always, and I knew that it was important, but going into it, I wasn't exactly sure my best way to go about doing that, and so there was a bit of trial and error. Luckily, it was a little more trial and a little less error. It was really as simple as making sure that the pickup and drop off for the parents was seamless, and it depends on the age of the kids, because for younger kids, the parents will want to stay around during a class, and for older kids, it's really just pick up and drop off, yeah, see ya, yeah, yeah. And so for the younger kids, the parents would stay for the class, and so I had to make sure that I was being extra professional, and even when the kids would the parents would drop the older kids off, of course, I'd maintain being professional and trying to teach as much as I could, because I really did enjoy teaching the kids how to cook and sharing my passion with them, but I really had to amp up that. I kind of had to put myself in the shoes of a teacher. I thought about, how would an elementary school teacher be acting right now? Instead of teaching in my own style, I see that. I see that trying to provide that comfortability, yeah,

Rick Denton: 22:44

and even you're saying some wisdom there of that, there could be this focus on, okay, the this fits in sort of talking about customer journeys, and the entire customer journey, when you spoke of the pickup and the drop off, right, instead of it just being you're here to learn how to cook, and I'm going to make that the best experience possible, but realizing that the actual journey extended well before and well after the these specific moment of cooking is great. Thinking about companies and customer experience in general. What are companies doing wrong in customer experience, and how do you think they should or could improve on customer experience? Well,

Tucker Wakabayashi: 23:26

we touched on this a little bit earlier, but I think one thing a lot of companies are missing is true empathy and treating the customer like a person instead of a data point or a resource. I'm there are different ways you could go about it. Of course, I think the data driven approach is important, learning who the customers are and trying to change your the way that your company behaves, to make the customer feel the best based on what you know about them, but I think another way that you could go about it, and it's scary, I know, and it could potentially lead to lost sales in the short term, but I think just being genuine as a company, look at your mission statement. If you don't have a strong mission statement, then try to come up with one, but try to find a strong company culture and let the customers come to you, you know, find, figure out who you are as a company, so that then your target customers and the customers that you want feel at home with you, instead of trying to please everybody. That's

Rick Denton: 24:39

huge, right? And I think it's, it's great that you're aware of that so early in this career path that you're on, because there's such an appetite. Heck, I was guilty of it even as an independent consultant when I was doing independent consulting. And that is keeping the lens too wide, just trying to be any sort of service to. Any sort of company, whereas actually understanding who I am, where my value is, and how I can add that value to a company, and narrowing down is so true. And so you describing that for companies. How can you Tucker, you specifically help companies improve that empathetic understanding, that empathy approach to their customers?

Tucker Wakabayashi: 25:20

Well, one of the things that draws me so much to customer experience is the psychology aspect of it. If there was more career opportunity outside of medicine, I probably would have ended up as a psychology major or sociology. I find them both super fascinating, and I look into that kind of stuff on my own time, and I feel like CX is the most psychological of the different areas of corporate business you could get into. And so I think taking traditional psychology approaches to understanding and applying them to customers is really critical.

Rick Denton: 26:07

I like that. My daughter is a sociology major, and so it's good. I like hearing a sympathy or a not sympathetic, but basically another person out there that is interested in that field. I've been fascinating watching her go through that and some of the things she's been learning as well. And to hear you say that and psychology apply to customer experience, makes a lot of sense to me, right? There's so much of this that is not logical. It is very much behavioral. It's very emotional. And understanding that psychology to help then improve the company's approach to empathy makes a lot of sense. What's next for you? I know you're looking for that first, next, great role. What does that look like for you? As far as what's next in customer experience? Well,

Tucker Wakabayashi: 26:47

right now, I am just trying to get my foot in the door somewhere. I'd love to start in a CX role, but a lot of those jobs are harder to find at an entry level, so I'm looking to start somewhere else and move into CX, unless magically, a CX role gets dropped on my plate.

Rick Denton: 27:09

Hey, you never know with this episode, right,

Tucker Wakabayashi: 27:12

right? I I'm trying to position myself potentially as in a social media role if I can, because as a digital native, I have an understanding of social that some older and more experienced and more capable people might not have, and so I think that's one of My differentiating factors,

Rick Denton: 27:41

folks, if you weren't watching the video, Tucker's talking about me. So yes, I am one of those olders and not as Native people in that world that may okay. I can see that, Tucker, Tucker, this has been an unexpected delight for me. I knew it was already going to be a delight, because my first interaction with you was you fed me well. So automatically, that just means that I'm going to love the person who you are for the rest of your life. Thank you. You've taken me though in some places that I did not expect, and I appreciated learning those. There's a lot of good nuggets that you put in here that show me that you've got a good runway ahead of you, and that will be intriguing. And there's a company out here, either listening, watching or somehow will be exposed to you that is going to drop you into that, that that first great next customer experience role, if folks wanted to get to know you, to learn more, a little about you, or, heck, to just reach out and say, Tucker, you my company. Now. What's the best way for them to get in touch? Well,

Tucker Wakabayashi: 28:36

my LinkedIn is available. It's linkedin.com/tucker walk abayashi, I'd say that's probably the best way to reach me. I would drop my email on the podcast, but that seems a little weird. We'll just leave the

Rick Denton: 28:53

LinkedIn link in in the show notes. There. Y'all go there. Hit that. Connect with Tucker and build a connection with them, because I think this is somebody you're going to want to be paying attention to, not only now, but in the now, but in the the medium and the long term as well. Tucker, been a real delight. Again. I am very jealous of where you are and what you're getting to experience. I'm also very encouraged by the wisdom that you have shared with me today as well. Tucker, thank you for being on CX passport.

Tucker Wakabayashi: 29:16

Thank you for having me.

Rick Denton: 29:22

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. If you liked today’s episode I have 3 quick next steps for you Click subscribe on the CX Passport youtube channel or your favorite podcast app Next leave a comment below the video or a review in your favorite podcast app so others can find and and enjoy CX Passport too Then, head over to cxpassport.com website for show notes and resources that can help you create tangible business results by delivering great customer experience. Until next time, I’m Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.