Sarah Hatter: 0:00

One of the first things that I that I learned was when you need to put a customer on hold or do something, you ask their permission. And it was this phrase Are you able to hold while I look into that you give them choice. thoughtfulness behind that language and behind actually asking for that choice and permission and consent, can waterfall into every other thing, every other step that you take with that customer.

Rick Denton: 0:23

Customer Experience wisdom, a dash of travel talk, we've been cleared for takeoff, the best meals are served outside and require passport. Hey, everyone, welcome to CX passport. You actually don't know how excited I am to be recording this episode because today's guest is Sarah Hatter, the creative force behind elevate CX and why am I excited because of that because of Elevate CX and all that Sarah is going to share with us the fact that it's taken us what four attempts Now Sarah to try to make this happen. And we are finally recording this episode. And it's going to be a great one.

Sarah Hatter: 1:02

Yeah, don't be the best you've ever done. Sorry to interrupt, but I'm just saying, considering the length well,

Rick Denton: 1:11

you can tell you exactly listeners and viewers, you can tell the the difference in how we're going to introduce this the way we're going to do things because we are so excited to actually have hitting having the opportunity to hit record. I will share with you just a little bit about Sarah there like I always do listeners and viewers. I know that for a decade, she has shaped these spaces where customer experience professionals can truly thrive offering this blend of live events and online courses. Speaking of Elevate CX Sara has created this community that spans three countries connecting CX leaders to master classes and live AMA's and helping them stay ahead in this rapidly evolving field. Her work at co support has been equally impactful helping both emerging and these established companies enhance their customer support strategies, emphasizing efficient education first approaches. Today we will finally and I say that with deep sincerity and excitement get into Sears insights on the state of customer experience today the power of community and how thoughtful attentive leadership can drive a company forward. Sarah, I am delighted to say welcome to CX passport. My

Sarah Hatter: 2:25

gosh, what an intro. I hope I can I can live up to all of that. But I'm just telling you, this feels like I have made it. I am at the top of my game being on your podcast. This is like, you know, this was really really fun for me. So I'm glad that we're finally. Yeah, there's

Rick Denton: 2:46

listening to viewers out there like oh my gosh, is Rick really bad excuse No. path for you and me to get going here. So yeah, I have a lot of guests talked about their origin stories. I love hearing those origin stories. And I know the listeners and viewers like hearing them as well. So let's start there. What is your origin story on how you got into customer experience? And what did those early days teach you that you apply today?

Sarah Hatter: 3:13

You know, it's it's funny, I I think I've gotten used to telling the story so much that I feel like everybody's heard it. But it's still surprising to people. I am a tried and true customer support veteran. My very first job when I was 15 years old was actually working in a call center. Do you remember I mean, you're old enough to remember and you'd watch TV? And there'd be that blue screen there selling stuff to you? And it's like to box.dot.or call one 807? Oh,

Rick Denton: 3:39

yeah,

Sarah Hatter: 3:40

I remember those. It was always like in the same couple of cities. Way back in the day in America, those those places were, you know, logistical centers that had call centers attached. And that was my first job answering the phone for people who were buying shampoo bows. And like kind of Slim online. When excuse me, not online, on the TV or radio, we'd even have there was no online. Like, this was like, way back in the 90s. Right? We would even have little buttons that told us you know, the the way that on the buttons if it was a red button. It was from TV. If it was a blue button, it was from the radio, they were calling from the radio. So yeah, so I mean, that's a that's a weird thing to say, considering where my career trajectory took me, but I think it served me very well. Right. So I was I did that for a long time. And then when I was 1920s, living in Northern California got, you know, looped in with a bunch of my friends doing cool shit on the new internet and would do little things like write their documentation for them or help them with customer support emails, because you know, I had that background. And then before you know what I'm working for a startup, one of the very first SAS cloud subscription companies, and in 2011, I left to start code support which was my customers. spirit's consultancy. And at that time, you know, I mean, we can look back on that time and just be like, Oh, my gosh, what a rocket ship we've been on. But back in 2010 2011, there were not people talking about CX, like we do so freely, and so effortless, effortlessly Excuse me. And we also don't have to explain people anymore. Like, we don't have to explain to them anymore what this stuff means. Right, are the processes involved? Where I certainly had to, which is why I had the entire consultancy, so, so yeah, that's what that's what that is. And we're doing that for about 12 years now. And then, in 2012, we also started elevate CX, which is our live in person conference that we do two to three times a year. So we've been doing that as well, for 12 years. My gosh, it's really time to time. I

Rick Denton: 5:52

hear a little bit doesn't it really does. Hey, so I actually I want to the fact that you started at that type of role, I think is so valuable. Yes. Folks, who are in the CX space that have not had that actual customer facing role for me, it wasn't phones, I worked in a grocery store, I worked on the front line of retail at a clothing store, if you remember the brand structure, oh, yes, the malls way back your product, getting the 800 phone calls. Through between Express and, and structure, I recall. And so if you haven't had that frontline experience, you don't necessarily appreciate and it may not be fair, people can learn their way into it. But thinking back to that you said 1516 year old. So what are some key lessons from then that you're saying? All right, right now, this is what I take forward and customer experience. Today, I'm

Sarah Hatter: 6:47

telling you, there are things that I still say and do that I learned in my training when I was 15 years old, for my very first job, that is not a joke and things that I have, especially when it comes down to writing macros, or scripts or knowledge, documentation, stuff that is still in my brain. One of the key things that I always stuck to and I always train people on when we coach and train, you know, CX teams that are on the phones, phone training, and like phone skills has really gone downhill since 1996. Let me tell you, one of the first things that I that I learned was when you need to put a customer on hold or do something, you asked her permission. And it was this phrase Are you able to hold while I look into that you give them choice. And that is a very concrete example. That's one singular thing. But the thoughtfulness behind that language and behind actually asking for that choice and permission and consent can waterfall into every other thing, every other step that you take with that customer, right? So you are not going into the situation demanding or just reading off a script. I mean, we've all had to have those phone calls with Comcast or with God forbid, the IRS or whomever it is, right where you're just like, the I just feel like I'm just so worthless to you, and I'm bothering you, and I'm interrupting your day, and you are in the position there to help me you are the person on the end of the phone number that they gave me to call for help. So shouldn't the interaction be teamwork? And shouldn't it be? You know, shouldn't there be at least a perception that you're on my side or that you want to help and you're willing to help? And you're going to do that thoughtfully. Yeah, and efficiently. So that's one of the big the big key ones is in any kind of written language, and especially on phones, I'm very, very, very serious about like how we present ourselves as being that champion team member to the person who's calling, which is like a small thing. But again, it's it's a waterfall effect.

Your CX Passport Captain: 8:48

This is your captain speaking. I want to thank you for listening to CX Passport today. We’ve now reached our cruising altitude so I’ll turn that seatbelt sign off. <ding> While you’re getting comfortable, hit that Follow or Subscribe button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. I’d love it if you’d tell a friend about CX Passport and leave a review so that others can discover the show as well. Now, sit back and enjoy the rest of the episode.

Rick Denton: 9:14

And what's great about that is you've given that customer agency in that point, and they feel like that there if not the words in control, like there's some power shift that's between agent and customer. But you've let them feel like they're a part of the solution that this is not some no longer a combative situation, but actually they have a role to play in moving it forward. And that that brings that teaming together that you're describing. Okay, you said something in there that triggered a question that I want to ask you and that is you talked about oh training is not quite what it was before. Right? Yeah. And we've seen the evolution of this customer experience industry. It's it is simply not a pretty picture out there right now. There There are teams that have been decimated. There is a perception around customer experience. You You've even talked about this concept of price gouging of salaries in the space. And what that means. Tell me a little bit more about what you're seeing out there, especially that price gouging phrase.

Sarah Hatter: 10:11

Yeah, um, I can, I could talk about this for years, I'm just warning you, you're gonna have to cut me off just like get the hook and like, drag me off. Okay, it's okay. So yeah, I think one of the bigger things that we're facing right now is we're facing this, this hurdle. And let's talk specifically about consumer products. Let's talk about larger products. So ones that we have more experience with as a consumer ourselves, enterprise products, DTC, e commerce, whatever it may be, um, 1015 years ago, maybe 20% of those large legacy brands names that we know, were using BPO services, they were offshoring. And they were using giant call centers or email farms back in the day, but now we're seeing that more than like the 50 to 60% range of people who are actually using offshore outsource services, there is nothing inherently wrong with that unless you fail to treat those those people properly. And that's the gap that we're missing. There are some BPOS out there, Boulder is one of my favorites, I think they do this so well, they are on the ground in these communities, actually, like training agents, trading representatives, doing language schools with them, making sure that they're paid a living wage, there's a big incentive for them to be treated like great employees that we want to invest in, and not just sort of, like, you know, I don't know, the negative connotation, you can kind of put together on your own. But but still other companies I just don't think are training well enough. Or they're training in a way that I feel is just really sloppy and not authentic, you know, and you and I know this, you we've gone through this before, like, you call someone and they're like, Oh, my friend, I must I will so happy to help you. How is your day going? And you get if you're at a chatbot with someone, you get back these paragraphs that are just well meaning but in authentic, not real. And that's where some of that frustration comes from, is that I can see through all of this stuff, right? You're trying to layer on a lot of politeness and a lot of these like, quippy language things, but you don't even have a context of what that means to me as a consumer, right? So we get back into that into that rut of I'm trying to explain something to you, and I'm waving my ticket at the counter. And there's someone else there who just is really focused on hitting a script, checking a box, getting it done, right.

Rick Denton: 12:37

I've, there's a phrase that I've used with specifically what you're talking about, and I call it faux empathy. Yeah, the How was your day? I'm so sorry, this happened to you and those can be appropriate. But true empathy is understanding. Am I in such a desire to get this fixed in an efficient way that I actually don't give a insert word here. I don't give a lick about your emotions towards me. I just want what I want. And what I called for, I call it kind of the the New York hamburger stand versus the you know, the the deep south restaurant experience, right? Yeah, I just yeah, my hamburger, just just get to me. And so some of that faux empathy that scripting and what I really appreciate what you said, though, there is it wasn't this immediate vilification of BPO industry because I, I wouldn't do that I actually really love the BPO industry. But the equipping of those agents that are going to be performing on behalf of a brand that has chosen to outsource is such a vital part of it, that training, really, when you think that they aren't being trained to that degree, it

Sarah Hatter: 13:43

really isn't. When I talk to people who come to me and say, you know, we want you to audit our systems, or we're working with a BPO. And their quality is really low. That's on you. That's on you, you are hiring this company to provide you with employees who were front line for your your customers and consumers. You are the one who should be directing how they're treating those consumers and customers, right. And yeah, I love that idea of like this. It's like faux empathy. And again, there isn't. It's not malicious. It's not in some way, like meant to, you know, caught us or whatever. But it is, it is just a very sloppy way of trying to give people language that, you know, we're all friends here, when in reality, like, I really want to be on the phone call with you. I don't even want to have to take right that you've already failed me by having to have this interaction. I'm huge on that. You know, we do audits for coastal port quite a bit. And people come to us and we're like, very first question, what's your volume? What's your daily volume of incoming customer contact? Right? And then the next question is, why is it so high? Because there's always a reason it's one of two things. One, you've made it so that people have to contact a human being to get a certain level of service or to resolve a certain type of issue. They are all Ready coming into that interaction guns blazing? Because they've sort of like, thrown the keyboard out in the air and just like why can't I deal with this? Secondly, like you were you were not aware of how much those little interactions really, really affect that consumer customer relationship and their your reputation in their eyes. Because most people in the demographics that we're seeing, buying things online, especially like in the DTC market, they're of an age like you or I, or maybe the generation younger, younger, that we just want to fix the problem ourselves, read the directions, show me how to do it, let me watch the YouTube video. That is who we are serving. And if we don't serve them appropriately, in the way that they are focused on learning and use to learning and want to learn, then all we're doing is creating opportunities for more frustration. And so every little detail of the interaction after that frustration has happened. And we have to escalate that it just gets worse and worse than worse. Right. So it's again, that that kind of waterfall effect that I always think about.

Rick Denton: 16:00

That is the fact that you're talking about the customers already come in frustrated. Yeah. And listeners and viewers have heard me say this right. I am not a proponent of call deflection for the sake. Yeah, I mean, either like when either arriving, Sarah and that is how can we create the self serve solutions that are valuable and desired by the valuable to and desired by the customer, while allowing for the human interaction when the customer needs that human interaction? And so I get that same spirit from you. I imagine a lot of that comes from that experience, right? You've been here through the customer experience world for a while now. It customer experience, as you mentioned, is this mature industry. It's got its doors now. And it's meant it is whereas a decade before we didn't even have that I kind of imagined that that's something I could expect to see as part of Elevate CX and so I want to talk about elevate CX specifically thinking about an industry that is challenged right now. Yeah, it's got this maturity that lends itself to mentor mentee. Talk to me about the power of community Where's community in general, and where's elevate CX in this conversation around making customer experience better?

Sarah Hatter: 17:13

Yeah, I love that you brought this up, because I love telling the origin story of Elevate CX, which I didn't really do in 2000 of six through 2011, I was working at a startup that was SAS company startup, I was the sole person on my team customer support. I was the only non technical employee, so I was front and center with customers all day long. And one day, I got an email from a customer about a feature I replied to him that, you know, we can't provide that, but blah, blah, blah. And he wrote me back. And he said, you know, this is a really good reply, especially because it's you're basically telling me no, but you said it in such a way that made me hopeful and made me not think that I was being blown off. And I really enjoyed it. And then he said, I live in Sydney, Australia, and I do your job for another company. And I've never met somebody else who does my job, or who knows the ins and outs of this again, kids, we're very old people. This is a long time ago, right. And that person was Matt Patterson, who is now at HelpScout. He was a Campaign Monitor at the time, he was like employee number three, I was like employee number six of my little thing. So for the next few years, we would email each other. And you know, he I remember one time, I was getting inundated for some reason with charitable educational discount requests. And I didn't really have a good way to say, Oh, we don't really do that. Or do we? I don't really know. I emailed him and asked him like, do you have an answer for this? He sent me an answer. There's an answer that I'm not joking, I still use to this day, when I coach people on the same thing, like I've got a great template for that. So kudos to Matt. But then, in I think it was 2009, we both had the opportunity to go to South by Southwest, we knew that we were going to be there. And we made a plan to meet in person. And we sat at this little tiny table at a coffee shop. And we just exchanged notes. And we just talked about stuff and this and this and this. And again, this is the only person either of us have ever met who contextually understood our day to day job and what it meant and how it was emerging and changing and we didn't have guidance. And yes, you can look back and say there was the Disney Institute and Jeanne bliss but those again, are our people in the hospitality industry or working with call centers or these large legacy brands not I have 20,000 customers for cloud based SaaS product completely different worlds, right. So when I started my consultancy, I went on a solid year of hitting every single tech conference, every single interviews every single thing and I was exhausted. I remember saying to a friend of mine, first of all, all these conferences suck. They're all the same. They're all doing the same stuff. This greasy pizza boxes. It's a stupid t shirt you're never gonna wear sometimes it's a tote bag, you know, it's like whatever. And then on the flip side of that, I had about a year of just thinking to myself, I cannot be the only person talking about this, it can't just still be me and patto on the other side of the world, the only voices interested in this. So we decided to do this conference and really reached out to every cool brand that we could think of and our friends and people that we knew. And, you know, just like, do you have an intro here, and we put together we decided to put together this day of like, customer support and success, people, let's talk about what we know and give each other tips I did not expect. Number one that anyone would show up or buy tickets. Number two, I didn't expect to sell out almost immediately. I didn't expect that standing there in the room with 300 people at this event, people would be asking, when's the next one? Can I talk at the next one? Have you heard of this person's story. So it was a it was a very organic and natural sort of evolution of going from I know, there's other voices out there and I want to showcase them to suddenly I have a platform to showcase them. And I want to continue to do that as much as possible. I used to tell people all the time, like it's, it's it was kind of my mantra that I wanted to put myself out of business as far as being the fixer to come in and like deal with your SaaS company, you know, bad CX. And I did that, in 1010 12 years time, we've done over 46 events in three countries, every state that you can think of that has, you know, good catering and a hotel somewhere. And, you know, we're doing two more events this year, one in London in November, and another in Denver in September. So the more that we do these events, regardless of what's happening in the economy, what's happening on this side, the CX side of things, there is a huge demand for it from our industry. And, you know, we recognized last year when the when the layoffs started happening, very indiscreetly, that maybe we needed to offer some more online content. So we dove into that pretty heavily. So now we do live master classes every other Friday, plus our podcasts plus a lot of evergreen online content. But we are still committed to doing in person events, large or small, you know, I think people need it, and they want it and they desire it. And they they want to find ways to make it happen, especially when you're out of work. And you're looking for better networking opportunities, you know, as well as I do in the CX industry. The best roles out there are ones you find out through friends, or the references that you get through friends or through people in your network. So we're really dedicated the past calendar year and obviously going on, we've been really dedicating ourselves to becoming a resource for people who are out of work or who are looking to to find new work or new roles in the CX industry, and also broaden what that means. So we are not just a tech, heavy conference or community, we are now seeing a lot more people in the E commerce and retail world join. We're seeing a lot more people in private industry join. You know, we have people who come from the White House Communications Office, that's so weird to say out loud, but you know, they deal with customers too. So yeah, so it's, it's that's just kind of how it's evolved. We continue to see more and more and more and more as years go by that people's desire and need for community increases, it has never waned, and it is never going to I think, be something that is not essential to someone's career path.

Rick Denton: 23:33

I love that all that you're describing in there goes back to that sense of community, even when you're talking about the job aspect of it along, finding the next job, the learning aspect of it just the encouragement of another human who might have been across the world from you doing the same thing and realizing the universality. And it's that across the world that inspires me to say, hey, you and I need to stop down here. Sometimes that travel can wear us out. And I'd like to invite you into the first class lounge to take a little break right now we'll move kind of quickly here but we'll have a little bit of fun too. What is the dream travel location from your past?

Sarah Hatter: 24:12

Oh, New Zealand for sure. I mean, I've been I've been very very lucky to like go everywhere in the world that I want to go. But New Zealand I bet a couple of times as you can tell if you're watching the video of this My background is a lot of nerdery related to Lord of the Rings. So I've you know vented the Shire, my mom and I actually did a road trip where we drove from Auckland all the way to Wellington and did the entire north island that's my that's it's it's it's a ridiculous place. But I highly recommend if you get a chance to go or have two weeks left of your life you spend it in New Zealand it's the place to be

Rick Denton: 24:51

well, that's kind of a dark ending there. But yeah, I

Sarah Hatter: 24:54

didn't mean it like that. I don't know how that came.

Rick Denton: 24:57

The last thing you do you have two weeks next two weeks regardless of the motivation behind it, Sarah, not only are the objects behind you, so is the feline off your right shoulder there. What is what is your cat's name and

Sarah Hatter: 25:12

why cat Samus Pippin he's named after the hobbit from Lord of the Rings. Pippin is my favorite Lord of the Rings character you go on and on about it, but obviously, it's just there you go. ragdolls.

Rick Denton: 25:24

So as soon as you said New Zealand, I was like, Oh, of course, it's going to be New Zealand. Let's go the other direction. Yeah. What is a dream travel location? You've not been to yet? Egypt?

Sarah Hatter: 25:37

Egypt that's on my list. Yeah, my my family and I we actually had a trip booked for this Christmas, we're going to do a Nile cruise and have decided just in the realm of, you know, political thinking, we're maybe not going to go this year. But it's it's one of those places where I feel like I'm a student of history. Always. I think that the best decisions and thoughts come from seeing what other people did and kind of tweaking it to be the best version for you. And that comes that comes across in a lot of the work that I do. And a lot of the mentorship I do is asking about what is the historical context of this thing. And so, obviously, I'm really drawn to places like that, or Greece for the same reason. Um, you know, that's one place I have never been, would you just adding, adding? Yeah, I could just like, I just couldn't. Yeah, I could go on and on.

Rick Denton: 26:29

Well, that's what Egypt is a place that I've spent, I think it was three days it was a work trip. So I've been there and loved it. It was brilliant. I'd love to go back and do what you're describing as well. Greece is a place I've not been to get either it's on my actual dream list. And part of that is because the food so low, yeah, this now what is a favorite thing of yours to eat?

Sarah Hatter: 26:49

Gosh, you are really getting to the core of me right now, aren't you?

Rick Denton: 26:54

These are the deep questions, right? Yeah, yeah,

Sarah Hatter: 26:56

I you know, I have I have weirdly disordered eating and that like there, there are things that I just I especially at home, I'm just really consistent. I'd like to do the same thing. Every time. It just it's one less decision that I have to make every day. But when I travel, anything goes it there'll be anything in the world. So I would say definitely, I'm a big cheeseburger aficionado. That's like top line for me. But I also really love experimental foods. I love cheeses from around the world. I love countries where cheese is your dessert? I just find that like, yes, we need to do more. America, right? We really do. We need to have better cheeses and think of them as an indulgence, not just like you know, something on the side. So yeah, I am I'm big on that. My favorite bread is a croissant if you if you dive really deep.

Rick Denton: 27:49

I'm with you here and what I'm laughing about is viewers know that I clip up these these shows and drop a clip there on YouTube for the YouTube shorts. And I'm really tempted to have America should be better with its cheese's

Sarah Hatter: 28:03

listen. I'm telling you, the more that you go the other way. Yeah, the more you travel you have those experiences the more you're like cash what's wrong with us? You know? Yeah,

Rick Denton: 28:16

there's a lot that's good about us too. But yes, it shows you that there is more than one way to eat dessert. Let's go the other way. What is one thing growing up you were forced to eat but you hated as a kid.

Sarah Hatter: 28:28

Squash. It bad memories about squash. I'm with ya. And I also I wouldn't even say this is actually this is a better one a better and it's not about when I was a kid it was about when I was like growing up and then like in my 20s New York style pizza is not good pizza and this is a hill I will be I will be happily dead on the sogginess. The pieces are too big. They're flopping around the cheeses too greasy half the time there's no toppings at all. No. We've all pretended for too long that it's good and I disagree. It is not good. It is not good.

Rick Denton: 29:08

Okay, so I know that there's at least a sizeable percentage of listeners and viewers right now that have just either slammed their keyboard or their phone down or whatever it is that they're using to watch this. It's it's I welcome all perspectives on CX passport even if I like kind of folding up the pizza and having a bite of it myself. But other than a shield that I think you may need to carry a shield right now. Not including your phone or your passport that you will not leave home without.

Sarah Hatter: 29:40

I really like these sugar free vitamin C drink mixes have like electrolytes in them but they're sugar free. They're low carb that has that's my my tried and true way to just stay like without jetlag. I don't know how it works. I don't know why it works, but I highly recommend And then to anyone who's traveling, they're just good to have and you're traveling you're on your feet way more than you realize, like people are walking around a lot you're eating indulgent food, you're eating a lot of sugar, way off your diet. So it's a nice way to kind of center I think your body and your brain to that's like my big thing. I would also just say another caveat loop earplugs. If you've never, if you've never gotten into loop earplugs, it's a lifestyle. And it'll absolutely change everything for the better for you. So that's my plug. If you're listening loop earplugs, I'm available for influencer deals.

Rick Denton: 30:43

Gosh, Sara, okay, well, I'll reach out to them and maybe about a deal but

Sarah Hatter: 30:51

I just love to get someone from their team to speak at my event. That's another that's another thing I'm always thinking about too. If you're if you're a cool brand like that you want to speak at Elevate, please get in touch you

Rick Denton: 31:00

actually say you did say that when you were mentioning how did you get started? I just picked cool brands. And I like that approach. It makes at least it's going to be kind of a fun conversation there on the floor. Speaking of fun conversations, I don't know if you're looking at the timer, I just looked at the timer and holy cow we are out of time. But there's a specific thing that I want to ask you about. And it goes back to that frontline. So let's close out with this. Okay, and it goes this evolution of customer experience. So many companies talk about being customer first. And they have their platitudes and other signs on the wall. And yet they still go in ignore and underfund specifically the customer facing frontline whether that's store whether it's the agent on the phone, I want to go the other way. What are some stories and examples out there of companies that you see doing it right today?

Sarah Hatter: 31:49

Guys, gosh, I we don't have time for this, Rick, you should have asked me this instead of the cheese story. Um, I would say I'll give you one example of a recent one that I think everybody can learn from it's a DTC brand. They're an influencer brand named crew, KR e w e, like the Mardi Gras float. They sell sunglasses, pretty high end sunglasses, they're they're not a luxotic a brand. So they the you know, design and source and everything. And it's sunglasses, right? How hard can it be? Well, every time I've had to contact them, or anytime I've had a question one time, you know, they have they use that like forgotten cart or CART recovery programs, they send me a text and they're like, Oh, this is still in your cart. And I was like, I love that. They texted me because that's my preferred way of communication. And I click the link in the text, and it brought me to my cart with my thing. And it still I wasn't even logged in and I bought the things. So fast forward a year, I saw I broke this pair of sunglasses, it was completely on me. And they were repairable. But given that they are not luxotic, a brand or prescription eyewear, I emailed them and said what do I do? I this is totally on me. I'm willing to pay for the repair, do I just replace it? And instead of getting back an auto responder telling me I'll get a response in three to five business days. And instead of getting back nothing or something that was Hello, my friend, I am so sorry to hear about your fill in the blank. What did you do to screw up your life situation? I'm happy to help you. Right? They actually sent me back an email that started with no worries Sara, and included the information about their unlimited lifetime warranty, no questions asked, all I had to do was send a picture in they sent me a shipping label, and it was bumped up above and two weeks later, I got a new pair of sunglasses couldn't believe it, I was floored because that is the type of customer support or service that you have to think about. Well beforehand, you have to think about before people start asking those questions, you have to put the policy in place, you have to empower your support teams, you have to give them all the information and then stand by it. And if that means that people quote unquote, abuse the system, which again, is not a good enough excuse to not do these things, then you figure out ways to you know, work with those in particular customers instead of criminalizing your entire consumer base. I was just really floored by it. It was something that happened within the last few months. And it's always top of mind for me. So I think again, it comes down to how much we prepare in advance for situations like this. Right.

Rick Denton: 34:25

I def I'm really glad you shared that story. And I want to end there because it hits on one. It's just good. Yeah, happy. Let's end on a positive because there were some elements of darkness even earlier in the episode, the ending there. The other part is it hits on a couple of things that I really, really love. And that is process and execution what you just described. You said it it had to be planned out ahead of time. There was a plan. There was a possible use case if you want to use that phrase, and what is the process that's going to be handled inside of it. And instead of it being a policy it's scripted to your point of the words. It had this process is an execution. And it allowed for the humanity of the agent that was responding to as well. There's this wonderful linkage between that process, the discipline the system, and the humanity in the story that I'm hearing that they can say things like no worries, or they can engage with you in the right one. And it's all said the agent

Sarah Hatter: 35:18

didn't have to make the call. That's one of the best things the agent was already empowered to make the call. There wasn't a let me ask her. Let me put you on your manager. And let me ask permission. Yeah, I don't know there's a case study will look into this. We've already resolved that, which means that we are already in alignment of how we treat our employees is how we want our customers treated. Right.

Rick Denton: 35:39

That's that we're ending right there. Exactly. I love that you're calling. folks wanted to get to know a little bit more about Yeah, oh, wow. Okay, Pippin. I didn't mean for you to leave yet. And we're gonna find out. How can folks touch with Sarah, Sarah, if they want to get to know about you more about elements yex. More about CO support? What's the best way for folks get in touch?

Sarah Hatter: 36:00

Well, I've been on the internet for 100 years. I'm highly Google double. But you can also go to elevate cx.co. You can also find us on LinkedIn, if you're into that we just started a group so that people can notate their membership and elevate CX as part of their LinkedIn resume. But join our Slack channel. Our Slack community is open to anybody who's working in the CX industry, whether you're in Nisha startup growth stage companies, or SAS or E commerce or private industries, we'd love to have you.

Rick Denton: 36:28

Awesome, all of that. We'll get into the shownotes. How to get there. And you just click there and get get connected. Sarah, what a fun, wide ranging conversation. Appreciate that. I'm sad that Pippin didn't get to stay with us. At the very, very end, but it was enjoyable to see. See Pippin and all of the New Zealand and the Lord of the Rings. It was great to

Sarah Hatter: 36:50

finally get this insight. Yes, I'm so glad we were finally

Rick Denton: 36:54

there. Thank you. Absolutely, Sarah, thank you for being on CX passport.

Sarah Hatter: 37:01

Thank you so much, Rick, have a great rest of your day.

Rick Denton: 37:08

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. If you liked today’s episode I have 3 quick next steps for you Click subscribe on the CX Passport youtube channel or your favorite podcast app Next leave a comment below the video or a review in your favorite podcast app so others can find and and enjoy CX Passport too Then, head over to cxpassport.com website for show notes and resources that can help you create tangible business results by delivering great customer experience. Until next time, I’m Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport