Bill Staikos: 0:00

You don't need a CX strategy, you don't need a CX Northstar, you don't just give me the business strategy. And I have a toolkit called customer experience. And I'm going to use that toolkit to help advance the business strategy.

Rick Denton: 0:17

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode we’ll talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. I'm actually going into this introduction with a little bit of nervousness. I know that listeners and viewers recognize that I script these introductions, even though I really really enjoy improv, I like to take some time to think about the guest, and amplify who they are, what they've done, and what they might share with us today. Well, I'm having a really hard time doing that for today's guest, Bill Staikos Senior Vice President and Executive advisor at Medallia. And this isn't because I'm struggling with what to say I'm struggling with what to cut out. What hasn't bill done? Actual direct responsibility for customer experience for known brands like Credit Suisse, JP Morgan, Chase, or Amex? Yep. He's done that. What about pivoting into a consulting role where one can take the experience from all of that prior direct brand work, and help scores of other companies improve their customer experience? Yeah, that's another one on Bill's list. upcoming book? Yes, sir. How about hosting a successful and long running podcast around customer experience, including several awards, such as Best Business Podcast, and top five CX positive podcast? Yeah, builds done that as the excellent host of be customer led, click that link in the show notes and have a listen if you aren't already on the customer lead subscriber list. Additionally, Bill is one of the great followers on LinkedIn, this isn't just CX fluffernutter that bill offers, you frequently will see very practical suggestions on how to improve customer experience, overcome a challenge in the delivery of customer experience and a path to the delivery of actual, tangible, real business results. I think that's why I find myself drawn to bill in his content, that practical focus and delivery of real results. One of the realities of being a consultant is that there's frequently a lot of travel. And yeah, I know with COVID Business Travel found itself limited. I also know that bill is one of those that likely can tell us the exact seat he prefers on the Airbus Neo 321 And maybe even plans out which side of the plane to sit on for a particular flight to make sure that son doesn't show through the window too brightly. Oh, maybe I'm just projecting my own travel seat selection neuroses on top of Bill we'll see. Either way, he knows his way around an airport and definitely knows his way around the lounge. So I will be interested to hear his responses in the first class lounge today, Bill. Welcome to CX passport.

Bill Staikos: 3:06

Rick, that was an incredibly generous and kind introduction. I feel like we should just end the show right here, man, that's really like all I need, you know, I know you need a show. But like, I'm ready to hang it up for the day go have a cocktail that was really kind. Well,

Rick Denton: 3:20

I'm glad that you feel that way that hey, by the way listeners and future guests, there's nothing wrong with having a cocktail on the show. I don't mind that bill. But go ahead and pour that we celebrate. But I don't want to cheat the listeners and the viewers out of your wisdom. And just stop it right now. And we're recording this episode right at the beginning of 24th. What's our date here? It's the fourth of January. So it's a time when thoughts turn to the future. What will the year be like? What's big on the plans for 2024? and the like? Technology is always top of mind, especially with this carryover from 2023. And all the energy and yeah, hype as well. around AI. You've got a book coming out soon focused on the future of CX and how all these technologies are going to reshape brands. Would you mind just given CX passport travelers a little taste? What's the future of CX in 2024? And beyond?

Bill Staikos: 4:14

So that's a great question. I, I really see within this decade, a very big shift in how we interact with brands. I just posted something earlier today actually on LinkedIn, about 2024 trends. I do cover these in the book as well. There's going to be a really big dynamic around automation of the experience, how you're interacting with brands, by leveraging AI even down to the core of the definition of who is a customer and what is an employee because of these technologies. And there's all sorts of like crazy stuff on top of that, that's going to have to change. We over the next five, six years we are in for a foundational shift in what it what what experience is what it means who delivers it, who owns it. And certainly the skills that are going to be needed to deliver that and be part of that sort of that shift to so. And that's really what the books cover. And

Rick Denton: 5:24

I don't want to steal too much from the book, because now you've made me want to ask all of these questions that I wasn't even coming into the show to ask. But the skills part of it intrigues me, there's so there's so many things that I want to get out. Let me start with the skills part of it. Because I think a lot of that is going to lead us to a conversation to about what we haven't done quite right in the past as well. But looking forward, what are the skills that we do need to see evolving, to make sure that this, that we are able to deliver on customer experience in the face of or perhaps in tandem with this great shift you're describing. So

Bill Staikos: 6:00

there's a couple of things and it starts maybe at the at the chief experience officer level. And there's kind of four primary personas that we're going to see really come to the fore. First one is the humanist the practitioner really coming out in a different way. Human Centered Design, as a practice as a, as a discipline as a mindset is going to become critically important, particularly as organizations will struggle with the dynamics of the balance between digital and humanized experiences. I think the future CFO is going to have to be the technologist. A lot of different platforms out there technology is changing rapidly. CXOs right now today are not really part of the generative AI conversation, I think they're going to need to be otherwise. There all sorts of ramifications. If not, yeah, you'd have to be a futurist, being able to peek around corners. So you have to really think about data and analytics, and finally, the architect. And what I mean by that is, how do you bring through systems thinking and organization together, to think about all the different touch points that will evolve, how data is going to exponentially grow, how to use that data to drive better experiences. And in real time in a way that frankly, consumers will come to expect very, very quickly.

Your CX Passport Captain: 7:26

This is your captain speaking. I want to thank you for listening to CX Passport today. We’ve now reached our cruising altitude so I’ll turn that seatbelt sign off. <ding> While you’re getting comfortable, hit that Follow or Subscribe button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. I’d love it if you’d tell a friend about CX Passport and leave a review so that others can discover the show as well. Now, sit back and enjoy the rest of the episode.

Rick Denton: 7:53

I think in a lot of cases, we as consumers are already expecting it. And we have been disappointed by the absence of some of what you're describing there that we expect this to have already come together. And, man, I do want to keep exploring this this 2024. But I'm going to come back to that here in a little bit. The the idea of the humanist and the technologists, those are frequently very opposing person personalities, skill sets, goals, interest aspirations, how is that appropriately blended in this future state that you're describing?

Bill Staikos: 8:30

So I think, you know, this really comes down to and I I like I'm really fortunate that I get to talk to a lot of people in the experience space or in teams, there's so much focus on fixing that today. There's very, very little focus on how things will evolve. I am I was really impacted. My team was at the time, very much impacted by the epidemic. Here's why Franklin's wife started the podcast, I wanted to talk to people about like, what are you doing differently? What can we all learn from each other? No one's thinking about the future. Even organizationally, there are very few that are focused on what's happening, or what could happen down the road, and how do we test and learn? So I think a lot of that has been driven by technology. So yes, I think that the CFO and the six teams need to adopt and really apply human centered design as a as a practice to deliver their work in a meaningful way. But they have to come at it from a technologist perspective, because digital will dominate the conversation over the next two, three years. So you're gonna really have to bring those two together and then also be able to identify frankly, where, where do we need human to human experiences and where do we need machine to machine or even machine to human experiences? So I think that's it really big part of it, too.

Rick Denton: 10:01

Yeah, you and I got into a brief chat about that on that LinkedIn post today, that idea of, you know, pretty soon, will not pretty soon it already exists today that is bot to bot as a business transaction that I can ask Google to make a reservation for me, and it will work with OpenTable, to be able to secure that dinner reservation for me. And there's not a single human involved in that other than hopefully, an experience officer who created a human centered design as part of that process. So that it was a good experience for me as I went through that, that element of it, let's, let's talk about let's let's stay with this, then because a lot of what you're describing, there's energy towards. But we've seen this in 23, as well, that there's a lot of hype around this and, and how can someone if I'm in the customer experience space, or even if I'm out of it, and I know that this is what I'm hearing? Okay, I've got to be the humans, I've got to be the technologist, I've got to be the architect, I've got to be all of those four prototypes there. How do I separate this kind of hype of the transformation from the reality of it, there's been a lot that's already been promised. And I don't know that we've seen that manifested in some of the offerings that are out there,

Bill Staikos: 11:08

you're gonna see a little bit of an ad on the Gen GenA, GenAI stuff. I think that though, this capability in this technology, the way that it's being discussed, the use cases that are being discussed and planned, is fundamentally different than the conversations five, seven years ago, around chatbots, and how they're gonna transform the context center experience. chatbots were very context centered use cases, right? Thing capabilities, like generative AI are pervasive through the organization. Right, those use cases run top to bottom. Oh, yeah. And so from that perspective, I think we're gonna see the promise really come through. And it also has an opportunity to connect or AI more broadly, not just generative AI, but artificial intelligence broadly, is being leveraged to connect disparate sources of touchpoints, channels, platforms, devices. And that is happening also very rapidly. And finally, the real big marker here is that, you know, traditionally you'll see a lot that kind of hype cycle that Gartner talks a lot about, where things kind of fall off is where like, the investment doesn't really happen as much. And not just private investment, private equity companies, but public investments, and even public sector investment. So when how to leverage generative AI is like one of the number one goals across the federal government? Yeah, right. There's an enormous amount of money going into that. That's where like, then add in all sorts of the private equity, the public market investment, there's just too much momentum behind this thing now. And we will start to see a very transformational shift. Over the next couple of years, add in new capabilities, like CO pilots, or agents that open AI is coming out with that others have already come out with frankly, right. And that will evolve very, very quickly. I don't see a space where I mean, I think like the Amazon and Apple changed so much for so many people years ago. It's that level of transformation that we are going to see over the next three years. It's

Rick Denton: 13:41

an interesting example that you chose there. You're right, Amazon and Apple have changed as I as you were talking about the money flowing into it. I'm also thinking about the GP teas that can be created the little for forgive my ignorance here and the wrong words, but the basically the many apps that can be created using generative AI, and I see that almost democratizing the development of these, and even pushing that adoption out further. I know we've kind of gotten away from even the business contracts. But that can be used inside the business of some of the more successful ones I've seen, or somebody has created that for their own business application. And then have found that that is actually something that more than one business needs, and can use that little GPT successfully to help increase their productivity, make something gets smarter, make better choices as they go forward.

Bill Staikos: 14:34

Well, it's funny that you mentioned GPT is because today is the day record this while recording. Opening I came out that third GPT store is now open.

Rick Denton: 14:45

Right? I missed that announcement. Yeah, real. Yeah, that's total coincidence, I know is coming. Okay. So

Bill Staikos: 14:50

they announced that today. They took a plate a page out of Apple's book, the iPhone didn't really take off until 2008 2009 When they were like, Hey, we're out Putting an app store. And now we've got developers coming in, right? Similar for opening AI. And that is another sort of marker of I mean, if you look at what happened with Apple after, like, 2008 2009, what happened to digital? Generally? I mean, the curve is just so steep. I think we're gonna see the same thing on the gentleman aside. Now.

Rick Denton: 15:22

Let's, let's take a pause from that for a second. We may come back to that, actually, but I want to, in spite of the energy around looking forward, I think like all of us, it's important to look backwards at that classic phrase of you are doomed to repeat history, if you don't study it, all of those truisms. Right. And I think the customer experience had this moment of reckoning, I've talked about it in 2023, when we saw it in a very tactical way, the teams were being decimated, individuals were losing jobs, chief customer experience, Officer roles were no longer of interest and companies that answer not really that that important. Now, the business need to deliver for your customer to deliver an experience, whether it was labeled that or not, customers are still kind of the key to a successful business. So if that need for customers that need for satisfying, delighting whatever word you want to choose there, your customer still existed. Why do you think that there was that reckoning? And then if we had that Reckoning and CX How can we learn from that as a discipline and grow through it? Or maybe should I ask, Will we, as a CX discipline?

Bill Staikos: 16:33

Yeah, so I've got a pretty strong opinion on this that I've shared publicly, so I can share it certainly here. I think that I'm gonna use a term someone has used, and I'm gonna steal it from them by I won't mention their name. I don't know if they want me to mention it. But I think that customer experience has become the survey team. And we've been survey slapping people for a long time. And when you think about what that means, all you're doing is just surveys and reporting. Right, you're not closing the loop, you're not thinking using the information physically. You're not engaging your product, teams, on, on, on insights, etc. All of a sudden, of that, that becomes an organization that is maybe a nice to have. And the very sort of the backdrop of CX that I grew up in was. And it's funny, because I had this conversation earlier today with someone else. You don't need a CX strategy, you need a CX Northstar, you don't just give me the business strategy. And I have a toolkit that some that sits within this house called customer experience, or even employee experience. I'm going to use that toolkit to help advance the business strategy, because at the end of the day, I'm an employee, and that's what you pay me for. Right, right. And I think we've gotten too wrapped up in feedback, I think we've gotten too wrapped up in our own jargon, as a discipline. And I, you know, I think it just, it gets lost on CEOs ears when they're like trying to fight the marketplace and figure out where to go find revenue, or how to cut costs. And you might have someone in the room saying, well, let's go map out the customer journey. I'm not sure how that how does that help me right, like the CEO, my grandson has helped me. So I think I think eventually, what's going to happen is the CEO is going to look around the table. And we're seeing this happening now. And they're gonna say I don't need as many senior folks around the table, and the CXO is going to ultimately become the CEO or the CEO will take the CXOs job. You'll see a big shift from what traditionally started off in marketing to being pulled out into its own function now move over to more of an operational function, and that the real smart ones will say, Well, I can use this toolkit to go reduce our cost to serve in a meaningful way. Right. And I think that's where it's gonna move. Will it go by the way of like, six sigma? I don't know. I've argued that in the past that very much. Well, could I think that

Rick Denton: 19:13

what you mean by that, when you say it might go the way of Six Sigma? What do you mean?

Bill Staikos: 19:17

Well, think about like black belts. You don't really see black belts that much anymore, right?

Rick Denton: 19:21

Yeah. Well, I've joked that mine is gray from lack of use. Yes. Mine.

Bill Staikos: 19:25

Mine started off yellow. Right. And it's still you know, I'm proud of that certification. It was an incredible toolkit, and I still use it today. Yeah, but I don't tell people I'm, you know, Six Sigma certified, right. A Gen Z or might look at me like I've got three heads even right. So like, what? I'm really proud of it. And I'm glad that I went through the training and again, I you still use, I still use the toolkit. I just think that a lot of like, similar to like, you know, even agile now moving to DevOps, right like these days. things kind of go up and down, right. And I think that CX will go that way, although the toolkit will in some way, stick around

Rick Denton: 20:14

though we clearly need to take a break here, we got a little too serious there that's happened sometimes in travel. And we need to take a nice little break here. And that's what happens when we travel. Let's get into the lounge. Let's take a relaxation. I want to ask you a few questions here. We'll move quickly here have a little bit of fun, but I'm going to ask you a bonus question that I don't ask any other guests? Do you actually have a favorite seat on the Airbus 321? Do?

Bill Staikos: 20:41

I have generally. So I always sit somewhere between rows, eight, and 11 on the right side of the plane, and aisle. And the reason for that is, I mean, I fly a lot. So I get I'm likely to get upgraded a fair amount to right. But I always sit there. And I always try and just get those seats very rarely are you going to find me past row 11. Or whatever that first row in the plane is sound right? Right.

Rick Denton: 21:17

Your answer is less. Like vital to me than just the fact that you have an answer. That's the part that cracks me up that you know exactly. This is the range where I want to sit. Well, let's let's talk about when you are doing that traveling, what is a dream travel location from your past?

Bill Staikos: 21:33

Oh, gosh, personal or professional?

Rick Denton: 21:38

It doesn't matter what was your favorite location

Bill Staikos: 21:40

has to be? Well, my wife and I went to Bali on our honeymoon. And we actually took three weeks off, which is like unheard of over 20 years ago in the States still is in the states unheard of right? We took three weeks off, and we traveled around around the country a fair amount. We did end at a very nice luxury hotel overlooking the Indian Ocean. With a beautiful balcony and dinners on the beach and all that it was just a magical time. You're just married, but then it was just a magical place. But we've been fortunate to travel I mean, we've having worked overseas, we've taken month long vacations driving around France, driving around Italy, driving around Germany, driving around Spain. So we've been really fortunate in our lives, that slower travel

Rick Denton: 22:28

is is very appealing. I think if I were to do a while I actually have a second personal podcast, if I were to do a third podcast, I'd first be committed and then second. It probably be about slow travel because I think there's something when you really do take some time and just spend in an area and really enjoy that. And what about going forward bill? What's a dream travel location you've not been to yet?

Bill Staikos: 22:48

The Dream travel location I've not been to. I've really loved to go to the Maldives. Okay,

Rick Denton: 22:55

I'm sensing a theme here. Yeah, you liked that overwater the beach the water the sunset over the water, clear water

Bill Staikos: 23:01

beautiful sunsets very relaxed person. Not really a ski ski or winter person so

Rick Denton: 23:10

be out there on that bungalow That does sound nice. What is a favorite thing of yours to eat?

Bill Staikos: 23:17

Oh, pizza has to be I mean automatic? Well, and here's the thing. I'm born and raised in New York. And I've I've always had access to great pizza. My family has moved on to the DC area four years five years ago now. And no offense to the folks down here but like there's just not good pizza at all. Luckily, we traveled north enough to see family that I get a stopping here for a slice. I don't care what anybody has to do or say.

Rick Denton: 23:42

I can see I just had this vision of you in the morning like you know what, screw it and you get on the Sella you go get a slice of pie in New York and then you come back on the train that evening. And it wouldn't surprise me if you say I've done that before

Bill Staikos: 23:53

I've I've done that but incorporated that with like a bourbon run into like, Oh, brilliant. Delaware or Northern Maryland. Yeah.

Rick Denton: 24:00

Even even better. Yeah, let's go the other way. What is something growing up? You were forced to eat but you hated as a kid.

Bill Staikos: 24:10

I never hated anything. As a kid, I had a Greek heritage. My mother was an excellent cook. And we ate some weird stuff growing up like you normal people would look at him like I'm not touching it. And we ate everything. I like it. You know so I'm not afraid of anything and pretty much eaten anything that some will put in front of me. I'll try it.

Rick Denton: 24:33

Yeah, I think as an adult I'm that way bill where I'll try anything once I have some things I don't like but I'll try anything once as a kid. I'm not sure that that was a true sentence. Closing out the lounge. What is one travel item not include your phone not including your passport, that you will not leave home without?

Bill Staikos: 24:49

That's a great question, man. My American Express card. Can I answer that? Can I say that? I really will never leave home without it. I know that. I know. That's corny and cliche today. I sent their actual tagline on on on a podcast. But it's the first thing that came to mind, man, I will never leave the house frankly, let alone travel is my phone in my pocket and as my wallet in my pocket and everything else really is just incidental, isn't it?

Rick Denton: 25:23

Bill, My smile is continuing because one yes, of course, the call back to the phrase that's a good American Express alum that you are calling back the phrase. I have said similar things to put myself at ease that when you say it's a long trip overseas, and I packed it, I've been really thoughtful about it. And then I remind myself that the only actual things that I need are my passport, my phone, and a credit card. Everything else will can be resolved through that. So I can see why that would be the one thing that you don't leave home. And

Bill Staikos: 25:52

I'm a terrible Packer for as much traveling I do material. I've forgotten underwear, I've forgotten socks, I've forgotten. Shirts, like belts, like you name it, I've forgotten it. So well

Rick Denton: 26:02

destinations love the retail spin that you will bring to them when when Bill forgets. We talked a lot about the future right of technology. And all of that is going to really, really transform. I know it's such a generic word, but transform companies, cultures, individuals, well, that means that while we can implement a tool, we can implement a process, we need to implement just ideas. That's one thing. But that true change is another? How are you seeing the evolution of change management and customer experience in the context of what you're talking about in 24 and beyond. So

Bill Staikos: 26:43

it's something that I've been playing a lot with. I'm a big follower of the ad car model, if folks are familiar with that car. I've also read every one of John Carter's books. Sort of like the grandfather of change, or the OG of change, right? The The thing about both of those is, cutters a little bit more organizationally focused at cars more on individually focused. And I've been playing with this model about how do I bring the two together from a customer experience perspective. And because from from a CX perspective, right, we need to influence and drive change organizationally. But you really need to connect that down to the individual. And sometimes ADKAR can do that, but sort of not as effectively as Kotter can do that. So I've been toying with how to bring those two together in a meaningful way. So organizationally, people understand the experience that is brand aligned, and then can connect that down to their individual role, because I'm just a big believer that not everyone is client facing, but everyone is accountable to the customer or the client. Right? So how do you create a space, and a program and a platform to make that connection for people, so they really do see that in everything that they do day to day. And while still maintaining that kind of big vision, here's where we need to go. There's a company called, if you don't mind me saying, Route, I think they got bought out by KPMG, maybe a couple of years back, Chicago based consulting company I've worked with in the past, they were excellent at bringing both together. And they would do that by creating these like wall size visuals of the current state of experience, and then a wall sighs visual of the future state of experience. So when you came into that company, or that floor, you saw both walking in every day, and it was just a really great artifact and way to think about driving effective change, Journey effecting change on at the individual level, but also at the corporate level.

Rick Denton: 28:57

What did that I actually would like to get a little practical, what did that look like? Are you talking about images of people experiencing it? Or was it data points? What what did that cartoon visuals look like?

Bill Staikos: 29:07

They had cartoonists on staff. And they would go through this process of understanding the current state, multiple iterations of that visually. Okay, and then if you Google Inc, there's probably they probably have some of their maps online. And then they would work with you to say, Okay, what's the future state and they would kind of build that out. So like, every employee can see it visually. It was just I like that. It's a great way to do it. Yeah. Yeah,

Rick Denton: 29:35

I've been around. Again, sort of an aside here, but I have been one of the things in business that I don't think we do as good a job of is accepting that kind of design that creative that we're visual representation. We're so in love with our charts. Our scorecards are our Excel files, and when I had the chance to consult for Bose several years ago, I got a lot of exposure to the design side of the house there and how they informed and shaped the actual customer experience to that design element really opened my eyes to the fact that of somebody that's a, you know, a process guy and his origin, right, that's we talked about those those belts that have gotten gray. Right? It was eye opening to see not just the wonder, the stunning creativity, but the impact that those visuals could have. And I can see how root might have that same impact on their clients. I am I need to get somebody from root on the show sometime to talk about their models. Bill, I am cognizant that we are running low on time, instead of I guess, combined with the fact that I have about a dozen of the questions I want to ask you. But let's close with something really kind of practical and tactical for the listener and viewer. Right? So imagine, I want you to just imagine that one of the listeners and viewers is, is they're thinking, look, I want to truly do right by the customer. I want to understand how to create a customer experience that matters to the business. I imagine that unless somebody is steeped in our world, you talked about our jargon, you talked about our ways of doing things. They may not know where to start. Yeah. So for that listener for that viewer, how did they get started?

Bill Staikos: 31:16

Reminds me of a story. And I'll try and be quick on this. I was out in Michigan for a presentation I was on a panel. And we were talking about what do you see as some of the challenges in this space. And I said it was about 50 or 60 people in the room. I said raise your hand if you know your company strategy, if you could actually tell me what your company's strategy is. Not one hand went up. And there was a CFO in the room actually, which was a little scary. Not one hand went up, I would say is go and get a copy of your company's strategy. And not like the one pager. But like the thick deck that someone spent time producing with an executive team somewhere, and is being discussed in every part of the organization or as many parts as possible. Study that, understand it, know how the company is making money in and out of that strategy, how they're creating value and delivering value and receiving value. And then think about, okay, how do I use things like surveys? How do I use things like journeys? How do I use things like data or analytics, measurement reporting, to help the company achieve this strategy. Now, you may not be able to affect every bullet point on every page. But without a doubt, there's there are going to be some things that you can have an impact on. As long as you can have an impact on something that's on that page, you can measure that because then you can be sure that the company has measurements around that. And don't worry about CSAT. And don't worry about NPS worry about how you leverage your toolkit to help company drive the strategy. If you do that, and you you can prove that value a lot easier. I think you will have success in your career.

Rick Denton: 33:11

We're done here. I like just it. That's it. We're not going to go any further. What a wonderful way to end bill that as brilliantly stated, it goes to everything that we're talking about when it comes to the reckoning of 2023 and where to go in the future. It's not about those NPS scores or CSAT scores, it's about delivery of tangible results, in line with what that business strategy is. Absolutely love it. Bill, if folks wanted to get to know you, if they wanted to learn a little bit more about your CX approach just in and also where should folks find your podcast? How would they go about that?

Bill Staikos: 33:46

So hit me up on LinkedIn, I'm pretty active. I try and post every weekday. Just DM me. And you can find a podcast on B customer led.com becustomerled.com. I've been on pause with the podcast for about a year. So it's gonna be a little bit dated now. But I couldn't run a podcast, write the book and be a good dad and husband at the same time. So I don't know how you do it, Rick, but you've maybe coached me one day. But yeah, I'm excited to get back to it. And I'm actually going to the podcast will eventually be more forward and future thinking as well. So I've got some great guests lined up once the book gets done and dusted. So I'm excited about That's awesome.

Rick Denton: 34:35

Well, I can tell you two ways. I don't have a book. And I'm an empty nester. A new empty nester, so that has provided a lot of free time that we filled with, of course, a second podcast about being an empty nester. So, Bill, I'll get all that you described there in the shownotes Thank you folks. I'm not kidding in the introduction. This is a follow you want to follow. This is someone you want to know, Bill. Thanks for walking us today through the journey of what 2024 looks like. Thank you for helping kind of unpack A little bit of what happened in 23. And I do really appreciate that and part of how you're helping. And even if it's not just folks that are just getting started, I think that's true of anybody anywhere in their customer experience lifecycle. To get back and focus on business strategy, like you said, this was this was a very insightful episode. Bill, thank you for being on CX passport.

Bill Staikos: 35:21

It's my pleasure. It's an honor. Rick, I love what you're doing. I've been a fan for a long, long time. And it's just been great to get to know you over the past year plus or so. And hopefully, I'm looking forward to continuing the conversation. I always learned something new every time. We're on the phone together. So thank you for having me.

Rick Denton: 35:43

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. If you liked today’s episode I have 3 quick next steps for you Click subscribe on the CX Passport youtube channel or your favorite podcast app Next leave a comment below the video or a review in your favorite podcast app so others can find and and enjoy CX Passport too Then, head over to cxpassport.com website for show notes and resources that can help you create tangible business results by delivering great customer experience. Until next time, I’m Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.