Candy Kothmann: 0:00

When you're dealing with people, no matter whether you're in a for profit or a government agency, people want to be respected. They want their problems solved. They want their issues heard, and they want them addressed, customer

Rick Denton: 0:15

experience, wisdom, a dash of travel talk. We've been cleared for takeoff. The best meals are served outside and require passport. Hey buddy, welcome back to CX passport. I gotta tell you, this one's really unique as we are filming another iteration of CX passport live today, I'm super excited to meet with candy Coffman as we are filming at the CCN G regional event sponsored by spark CX down here in Austin, Texas, Candy has some amazing information, as we talked about a couple days ago to share, she is the North Texas telecenter director for the Texas Workforce Commission. Y'all, this is a big deal. Employment sits really high when it comes to people's personal needs. TWC is charged with overseeing and providing workforce development services to employers and job seekers. Candy is the unemployment insurance division of the Texas Workforce Commission. Now imagine all of these folks. They're needing to call in, they've got questions, they need support, they need to receive unemployment benefits. That's where Candy's group and her team comes in. This is actually on a personal level for me, because I have been the beneficiary of the services that TWC has provided. I have had unemployment moments when there have been layoffs and riffs in my past, and TWC has stepped in to fill that gap when I've gone through that. So the comfort level that I felt was due to what candy and her team provided. Y'all I mentioned that we're doing this in Austin, my beloved Austin, well, if you see a bigger grin on my face than normal, that's why, because I just love it here. But candy, welcome to see his passport.

Candy Kothmann: 1:46

Thank you. I'm so glad to be here. This

Rick Denton: 1:48

is exciting to speak to the person that's kind of behind some of the things that I've experienced in my life, and that's one of the things that's really different about your world. You come from a it's a government agency. This isn't about profit. This isn't about maximizing ROI or anything like that. This is a government agency that we're talking about. How does that change your approach to customer experience

Candy Kothmann: 2:10

when you're dealing with people, no matter whether you're in a for profit or a government agency, people want to be respected. They want their problems solved. They want their issues heard, and they want them addressed. That does not change. That's exactly what we do.

Rick Denton: 2:28

What I love is how you're calling that out is just, hey, look the basic theme. It doesn't matter if we're talking about Zappos, Chick fil A, American Airlines or Hilton. It doesn't matter. Am I heard? Am I respected? Am I understood? With that is your baseline, knowing that profit isn't necessarily the objective. How are you going about that? How does that sort of drive your mentality and your focus on how can I give that to my claimant in our

Candy Kothmann: 2:53

organization, with the Texas Workforce Commission, we have an ethics policy that. Ethics policy says that we believe that all people should be treated with respect, compassion and courtesy. And there's the basis of where we start.

Rick Denton: 3:12

You know what? I'm smiling. We could stop the episode right here and say, Hey, every single customer contact center out there, put that in your ethics statement. If you do that, then you will have like the ROI that we were talking about here, for for profit. Since let's talk about that respect. Because we hear the word empathy come up a ton when we talk about relationships with a customer, especially in the contact center. This really matters when we're talking about job transition. This is high on that personal needs thing. How are you equipping your team, your agents, to be able to deliver that type of empathy on that scale?

Candy Kothmann: 3:50

Well, we have what we call an optimized performance model. It's behaviors based so every evaluation or calls that we listen to is based on the behaviors of our agents, and we have five objectives for every customer contact. We want every contact to be accurate, complete, efficient, effective and courteous. You start there and then build into the behaviors that we're looking for. One of the behaviors on our list that we look at is acknowledging an empathy. So you talked about how stressful it is for people to come to lose their job and to come to us. They come to us with fear, anxiety, sometimes anger. The first thing we have to do before we do any business transactions is to acknowledge that emotion that they're expressing to us and provide an empathetic statement to them. So they know. We hear them, we understand the pain that they're having, and then we explain, inform how we're going to help them through this transition that they have.

Rick Denton: 5:12

You're bringing me back to some some memories, right? Because Absolutely, especially we're talking about these are situations people lost their employment based on no fault of their own. That's I was working for dot coms. And guess what? Lots of dot coms failed in the late odds, early 90s. That's not the person's fault, that's right? And so there is that, that fear, that rage, that disappointment, that they're coming at y'all with anger. There's, there's some absolute anger that sits in there. I imagine the real challenge is balancing that efficiency and empathy, this effectiveness, along with that care for that person. How are you balancing that? First

Candy Kothmann: 5:48

of all, we don't measure average handle time at the agents level. Okay, okay, yes, we have those stats. We are looking at outliers. Too fast, too slow, over the average. And then we look at what those behaviors are that cause that to be one of the outliers. All right, when our agents, our customer service reps, are talking to people, we want the call to last as little or as long as needed to achieve the business purpose of the call, that's all we want them to focus on. We don't want them thinking, Oh, this call has been going on, you know, X minutes, I got to cut it off. Because when you cut it off, you're going to lose an effectiveness, efficiency. You're going to lose courtesy. Perhaps you're you might not be as accurate or complete. We don't want them thinking about time. We do want them thinking about efficiency and keeping to the business purpose of the call, but yet, meeting the emotional needs and the and the transactional needs that this call requires

Your CX Passport Captain: 7:01

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Rick Denton: 7:27

Candy. You were talking about empathy there, and we were talking about the emotions associated with it, that there was rage, there anger, there's fear, there's all that. I know you can't tell specific stories, right? These are confidential things, but have you had examples where an agent has really been successful at turning the situation around? Actually,

Candy Kothmann: 7:47

I'm pleased to report we see this every day. We see them in terms of kudos. And people really want to share. They want to reach out and say, you know, when I first called, I was in an emotional state, but your representative took that emotion and turned it in to a positive experience for me, where in the end of the call, I didn't Have that emotion. I felt supported, I felt informed, and they were so nice and courteous to me. It was the best experience I had. It was unexpected. And so we see this time and time again, we have those really big over the top, challenging moments, and frequently that involves us getting involved with our law enforcement agencies. Oh gosh,

Rick Denton: 8:46

okay, we're really getting there, okay, yeah, and that's meant

Candy Kothmann: 8:49

to help support the person who has made a threat of self harm, yeah? Because people do often feel at the end of their rope. Oh

Rick Denton: 9:00

my gosh, no where we're getting real here. Yeah, they

Candy Kothmann: 9:03

feel at the end of their rope, and they are desperate, many times desperate. And we were hearing that level of desperation and mode the business transaction is second place. Yeah, it is all about crisis intervention, acknowledging, empathizing. But even that cannot be enough. Sometimes, yes, you know, because we can't solve everybody's problems, so we do engage in our law enforcement partners to help do wellness checks and, you know, intervene.

Rick Denton: 9:38

I'm you may have heard people say this before, but literally, like I've got long sleeves on, but I've got goosebumps hearing your story here. I want to talk about the agent experience for a second Sure. How do you equip an agent who is being told on the other end of the line that someone is considering self harm, to that? Degree, then also, after that moment, what does that look like from an agent perspective?

Candy Kothmann: 10:06

Well, first of all, I'm proud to say that our agents are feeling human beings who genuinely care. Yeah. So we have a process that we go into to say when this happens, here's the process that you go through, and we do have a help desk. They can immediately reach out. They can alert us that something is going on. We always tell them, acknowledge, empathize, and when you're not able to assist them, you escalate. You bring on person who can then do what's necessary to continue the conversation, or, in some cases, engage in wellness checks for that individual,

Rick Denton: 10:52

the intensity of this is off the charts for anything I've talked about in a contact center before, right? This is a lot different than my flight got canceled, right? What about the agent who just went through that is, what is the experience for the agent who just went through that moment they

Candy Kothmann: 11:09

have to feel supported and that they're not alone, right? Okay? But we also talked to them about how this isn't about them, the agent. This is about the individual and the human aspect. And they're caring enough to want to to be a help to them. If they have a need to de escalate, we have that for them. They do not have to continue on to the next call, they have someone that they can call their supervisor and talk through what just happened. Oftentimes, we're able to hear what the outcome was. Most of the time, it's a positive outcome. It works out in the end and everybody feels good. Oh, great. We got past that. They're going to be just fine. You

Rick Denton: 12:07

candy. I don't know any way that I can bridge from that to this, but that idea of de escalation and the providing the space for the agent to do that, that's something a lot of companies need to hear now in travel. And I promise you, I am not equating travel to what we just described there, but we've had some travel situations. You travel internationally, and it's nice to take a break. So I want to invite you to take a little break here, stop down in the first class lounge. Move quickly here and have a little bit of fun. What is a dream travel location from your past? I

Candy Kothmann: 12:37

just came back this past fall from Edinburg, Scotland. Nice. I love Edinburg. It's a wonderful, diverse, worldly type of city. You have people from all cultures, all parts of the world, all coming together in this really vibrant city that's full of history and culture and great food. Hello.

Rick Denton: 13:05

I love that. Okay, so you said everything that I enjoy the whiteness of the cultures you talk about the food. I love hearing that story. And when I get there, I've never been to Scotland. What is a dream travel location of yours that you've not been to yet?

Candy Kothmann: 13:18

And this one's coming up. I'm a international ballroom competitor that I do for fun.

Rick Denton: 13:26

Okay, CX, passport. Listeners, have you ever heard of anyone in that situation? This is awesome. How cool. Okay,

Candy Kothmann: 13:33

yeah, so I'm going to Iceland this fall. I'm really looking forward to to experiencing Iceland and all the wonderful things that it has to offer as well. What

Rick Denton: 13:44

a gateway, though, that it's the international ballroom dancing that gives you this access to all of these things. What a fun world to be a part of. You mentioned that Scotland has great food. What is a favorite thing of yours to eat?

Candy Kothmann: 13:56

Well, I'm from Texas, yeah. Okay, all right. I love my Tex Mex. There it is, yeah, excellent. Love the nachos, the fajitas, sour cream, chicken enchiladas, and, of course, top shelf margaritas. There

Rick Denton: 14:11

it is. Okay, my wife and I, Clancy and I just had a little Tex Mex last night so I can nothing like in the world. There's something about when it gets cold that all I want to do is eat a good old text me, what about the other way? What is something that you were forced to eat growing up, but you hated as a kid? That's

Candy Kothmann: 14:28

an easy one. First, I got to tell you a little bit about my background. Okay, good. I was raised on a farm, all right? Everything that came onto our table we grew or raised like our meat was our own cattle and chickens, and my dad insisted that every part

Rick Denton: 14:46

get eaten. Oh, my okay. There was the worst

Candy Kothmann: 14:51

meal we've ever had was boiled. Pow, and we could not leave the table. She boiled it. She didn't skin it, she didn't. Pickle it, she boiled it and we cut it, and had to eat it. And it was worth I could never get it swallowed. I've

Rick Denton: 15:07

had a lot of answers to that one. I don't think I've ever heard cow tongue really

Candy Kothmann: 15:13

bad the way that my mom prepared it. Well, I can't

Rick Denton: 15:17

think of any way to her to be prepared that I'd want it candy. I'm sorry we're gonna have to leave the first class lounge here, but you got a ton of travel. What is something not including your phone, not including your passport, that you will not leave home without, that

Candy Kothmann: 15:30

is so easy, comfortable shoes. I learned the hard way. I was on an overnight train to Rome. I accidentally left my walking shoes behind. I was going to the Vatican, so I got dressed up on the train, forgot the shoes. I had to walk everywhere in Rome in uncomfortable shoes. My feet were killing me, literally killing me. I was in tears and groaning, never ever leave without comfortable she

Rick Denton: 16:09

candy. So many people that are calling are calling in with an issue, with a problem or even a complaint. We've talked a lot about how the agent handles the empathy, the concern, the care for the claimant at that moment. What do you all do with complaints in general, when it comes to the insights around the experience that the claimant or the employer that they're having?

Candy Kothmann: 16:32

Well, first of all, it's important to understand that as a state agency, the Texas legislators have told us that every complaint must be registered and investigated. We say we take your complaint seriously and we are going to address it. So the process that we go through is to register the complaint, find out the details about their complaint, and then we investigate it. Many times. It's about a transaction that took place. Now, the basis of their complaint may be that they're just unhappy with the process, right, but they'll generally complain about whoever they were talking about, right? So our first job is to investigate, to listen to the call, and then to identify whether or not our representative met the objectives of the call and if their behaviors during that call were appropriate or outside the range of our tolerance.

Rick Denton: 17:35

Okay, so there's an understanding and a we're going to evaluate this inside the parameters of that call. What about outside of the call we need? Let's say that there's 50 of the same kind of complaint, right? I have to imagine one of the challenges that y'all have is what you just said, You're inside an agency that is created at the at a legislative This is a legal construct. This is a regulatory construct, right? How do you go about these sort of macro improvements, or macro understandings of the process when you live in such an environment that it is the legislature that decides what you do and what you don't do, every

Candy Kothmann: 18:11

complaint is ruled either valid or invalid. If it's ruled ruled valid, it has a category that is set by the legislator that we report on all of that information is fed up through our organization and within our own organization, we're looking at that. The Texas legislators also look at that, and we're always looking for process improvement. Sometimes they're just going to complain because they don't like the rules or the laws that govern what they're required to do, and that's something we can't control, but we can help inform throughout the process so they understand the why behind the what, what are we requiring and the why we have to require it?

Rick Denton: 19:01

Andy, I have to imagine that there can feel sort of almost not a constraint necessarily, but a recognition that, look, we can do this. We can't do this. How do you go about working towards an improvement for the experience that your agents have or that your claimants have? Some

Candy Kothmann: 19:18

of the things are completely outside of our control, right? Things that are within our control are centered around the experience, either the employer experience, the claimant experience, some of those can be improved through technology. Okay? My focus is on the customer experience side and working with our staff to help them deliver a better customer service experience. First of all, we must help our staff through their skills development, through their progression and knowledge. Knowledge of the program and the skills that they bring intuitively as human beings to do better in communicating with other human beings. And that's my focus. That's what we work on, is the customer experience. We're

Rick Denton: 20:16

going to end it right there, because that focus of their intuitive ability as a human to help another human, especially in the context that we're talking about a human who is going through, by definition, a crisis they are not dealing with, TWC, unless there is something that they are dealing with that has a serious impact. Candy, this was a real unexpected treat for me be able to go through this conversation. I didn't know what it would be like to talk to talk to a contact center that lived in such a regulated environment. I also did not expect to have you reveal the intensity to the depth of the calls that your agents are having to experience. That is something that a lot of there's a lot of contact centers out there that may think they're dealing with really serious issues, like the seriousness that you're talking about. This is real. This is life and death, and it actually deeply matters, and it has spoken to me, and I know it will speak to the listeners and the viewers for what they've learned out of you today. Candy, thank you for being on CX passport.

Candy Kothmann: 21:12

You are so welcome. It was my pleasure.

Rick Denton: 21:20

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. If you liked today’s episode I have 3 quick next steps for you Click subscribe on the CX Passport youtube channel or your favorite podcast app Next leave a comment below the video or a review in your favorite podcast app so others can find and and enjoy CX Passport too Then, head over to cxpassport.com website for show notes and resources that can help you create tangible business results by delivering great customer experience. Until next time, I’m Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.