Rick Denton: 0:05

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode will talk with our guests about great cx, travel...And just like the best journeys explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. Today you're in for a treat as we will be talking with Nima Khanghahi. Nima aka "Nima The Speaker" and I have known each other for years. I recall initially meeting him and thinking how much energy and fire he has. As I came to know, NEMA more I realized how motivational he is whether it's onboarding new sales teams or as a speaker to large industry groups, talking with NEMA just lifts you up. I'm really excited to hear what he has to say NEMA. Welcome to cx passport.

Nima Khanghahi: 1:04

I'm excited what an intro. Man, you've, you've completely set a high bar now and I have to bring now I got to bring all the fun and energy and motivation apparently.

Rick Denton: 1:14

Well, I have no fear at all, as to whether you're going to do that or not. So I know in that vein, you've spoken many times for the real estate industry and from my outsider's perspective, it looks like an industry going through a major disruption. But at an incredibly slow pace. Old School tactics are riding side by side with modern innovation. What are you seeing in that industry?

Nima Khanghahi: 1:38

Oh, man, you know, you're right. It's totally. It's an industry that's being forced to innovate just like many others. And I could tell you one of my pet peeves, you know, my dad is a realtor. I don't know if I told you this before. Oh, and, and, you know, you can imagine me speaking to a bunch of realtors. And then, after a speaking event, I would talk to my dad. And he'd always ask me, How did it go? And I go, oh, man, it was awesome. But I always felt like I could do something a little better, right? But I remember, you know, I always speak to realtors. And one of the things that is a big pet peeve of mine, as you're seeing this whole innovation and disruption take place in the real estate industry is, you know, the old school tactic like the sale that salespeople do, where they're the gatekeeper of information. Oh, yeah. And, and they're like, hey, I've got this really great home for sale. It's got five bedrooms, four bath, it's got an amazing backyard, they write this incredible description, and they innovative and sharing it with the world. And that's good. Like, if you're a realtor listening to this, that's amazing, you should be doing that. Right. But the one part that always bothered me is at the very end of this amazing description that they wrote, they would what they would withhold or withheld the price of the home,

Rick Denton: 2:56

which is one of the most important nuggets of information for the customer, right?

Nima Khanghahi: 3:00

So if I'm a consumer, if I'm your friend on Facebook, and I see this incredible description, I'm going Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that looks good. But I want to know the price. Yeah. And here's the thing, Rick, if I know I can go get the price. Like I can go online, find that listing that is on the multiple listing service called MLS in the real estate world. And but now you're causing me to have to go elsewhere? And if I go elsewhere, what if I no longer want to work with Rick now? Because I saw another cool realtor on the on the on the site that I ended up landing on? Yeah. baffles me,

Rick Denton: 3:35

that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. I mean, why would someone want to create that extra set of hurdles for the customer? Yeah. And I'm thinking, you know, what is a modern customer going to do when they're faced with that?

Nima Khanghahi: 3:46

Right, so the the modern customer is going to do what you and I would probably do and go, You know what? I'm not gonna like, go and message the realtor and say, hey, how much is this thing, I'm probably just gonna go look for it online. And, you know, there's a chance that I may not come back to you, because I might just call him another realtor and get get the information I need or have them show me the home. So I don't know. It bothers me.

Rick Denton: 4:10

So when you've brought that topic up to realtors, right, so you're talking to them about that. And as we talked about this glacial change, where you've got the old school and the new school side by side, what are some of the reactions you're hearing? When you're saying, Look, your customer expects an experience that you're not delivering what what are the reactions you're seeing?

Nima Khanghahi: 4:27

You know, the, the, the thing that you did that is very apparent is that, that if you're operating from a place of fear, right, most agents when they're doing that they're operating from a place of fear. It's, I don't want you to well, they don't want you to go elsewhere, but they're actually making you go somewhere else get the information. So they're, they they believe they have this information and they're so afraid that you you might use someone else or go somewhere else, but yet they're pushing you somewhere else. So the thing that ultimately you find out from them is, no, I have this information, and I want you to come to me so badly. But if you just actually free yourself with that thought, if you're not playing from a place of fear, if you just said, I'm going to give you all the information, if you're a realtor, and you go, I'm going to go and on social consistently, given all that I know, I'm going to share everything that I know, guess what, after some time, everybody's going to come to you, because you're the one that's giving everybody all the information, all the information, by the way, that they could go and get themselves, but you're the expert, and you're giving it to everyone. So I think it's always it's a it's a mindset shift. I think for so long, so many realtors have operated this way. And when you actually peel back the layers of the onion, you find that it's all coming from a place of fear, really,

Rick Denton: 5:54

there's a there's definitely a theme there of doing right by the employee doing right by the customer is getting rid of that, that aspect of fear and, and pivoting towards love or focus on what the customer desires, it's going to be interesting, you and I remember a world that you found out about homes exclusively through a realtor you'd walk to or you'd walk to your neighborhood, you'd see the sign and realize you got to Well, back in the old days, walk back home and all. But even when you were you know, just pick up the phone and call in that you would be excited when you'd see the little tube of information that somebody have a flyer in there. And, man, if they put the price on there, that was really helpful the equivalent of what you're describing as the modern person putting that price out there being the place that the customer desires in that customer that that that home buyer will flock to that realtor and by giving they actually end up creating a greater business. Such a truism and customer the end customer experience for sure. Hopefully, hopefully, we'll see the realty industry pick that up. So sticking with the home theme, I know you and I just talked about this. So a frequent homeowners Nemesis is the leaky faucet. God, I know it made an appearance that your household recently, and but through that you found something interesting about company approaches to the customer through that experience. Tell us a little bit about that.

Nima Khanghahi: 7:12

So So Rick, I grew up in a in a, in a home where if something broke, like we call someone to fix it, my dad was not a handy person. And therefore I grew up, you know, not really learning how to, you know, I could probably hammer a nail and I could like, threw a screw but I you know, beyond that, I probably have to call someone. So what happens is one of our bathroom faucets is leaking. And I go, Okay, I can call a plumber. That's usually my go to like, let me just call someone to handle this. But my wife said, Hey, why don't you look it up? Maybe it's something you could fix you're on your own. But she encouraged me to, you know, figure out if I could fix it myself. So I go. So where do I go, I go online, right? I go Okay, fixing leaking faucet, and I put the kind that we have a bunch of videos pop up. And of course, they're like these cool videos that have been created by like, you know, not the lows of the Home Depot's of the world or even Plumbing Companies. It's like this person, that's uh, that's doing it on the side, creating this really cool video, splicing it up telling me what parts I should need, I should go by and where I could get it. What I need to look out for how I need to put a towel underneath and make sure I absorb the water that might come out. And I look at this video and I watch it twice. Right and I go Hmm, I think I could do that. Right? Um, and so I go and get all the parts that come back and I fix it. But I remember as I'm looking at all these videos, I go, why isn't like the local plumbing company making these videos? Why is it? Why don't you see more videos but Lowe's or Home Depot doing this? And sure enough, this is a few years ago, right? But sure enough, now if you go on YouTube, and you look up some of these types of videos where you want to fix something in your home, you are now starting to see companies creating these videos. Because I believe they're realizing that more often than not, you're still going to call the local plumbing company, even if they showed you how to fix the little tiny leak. There. They're going to show you how to do the garbage disposal and you're going to see that video and go, Oh no, like, that's way out of scope for me. I can't I can't do that. This company it looks like they know what they're doing. Right. So I thought that was fascinating, right? This this thought that a plumbing company is creating videos now to show me how to fix a leak a leak that they would have had to come out and fix. They're showing me how to do it. But guess what they've learned that more often than not, the average consumer is going to watch that video and go on now. That's not I can't let me just call that and that's how they're going. To get more business, it's by giving that information to the consumer. and educating them, letting them know, hey, if you want to do it, you can, here's what you'd have to go do. Or we can come out and do it for you. And we're the experts on Yes. So just make sense.

Rick Denton: 10:15

It really does. And I've seen it a lot in so I've got a 2001 pickup, which means that I am doing repairs quite a bit. And same thing in the auto repair space, that there's these great videos, and sometimes it's individuals. And I've learned a lot from the individuals. But there are a lot of parts companies who have leveraged these videos. What I haven't yet seen, though, is what you're describing is the auto repair industry offering up these videos. And I almost want to say as a scare tactic. Look, here's how you can replace the air conditioning in the VA of your 2013. suburban. Oh, you realize it's like five hours and you're going to need a lift, and you're gonna need to do all this. But here's how you do it. Okay, I'm running straight into the auto repair shop. Well, then they give me perhaps the easy way to fix breaks. And so by offering up that content, it, it seems like that'd be a good place for them to to learn from the plumbing supply. So let me ask,did you fix the faucet,

Nima Khanghahi: 11:14

fix it, I fixed it, and it works great. And I was so proud and happy.

Rick Denton: 11:18

Such are the joys of homeownership. Now, homeownership often makes us want to get on a plane and go somewhere else. So thinking of repairs and everything else, sometimes it's nice to just go away. And I know you recently got back from Aruba, which I'm sure was fantastic. Now I don't own the rights to that song. But I'm already imagining it in my head now. And I'm sure some of our at least a segment of our listeners are too. But tell me about Aruba. Tell me about that travel experience.

Unknown: 11:47

Oh, man, you're so right. And it was so needed, especially after a year of spending time in the home and just needing to get away like old ways of being able to travel easily. But of course, we traveled during, during the pandemic. And so we found a Rubbo we're like, Alright, Aruba looks like they're requiring tests. So hopefully there are a lot less people that are going there that have COVID. And so we get there. And this is the interesting thing, right? There's two things that I found fascinating about Aruba. When we got to the airport, the airport was so I guess managed well with the whole process that they developed. So we got we got out of the plane, we come in, we walk through like their customs or where we go to get our luggage and right before you get to like the baggage carousel, they have these lines where they're checking your phone and your paperwork to see your COVID information. And if you have the proper COVID test done, they give you this little blue sign looking thing. And that basically means you can grab your luggage and you can head out because like you have you've you've showed the proper, okay? Well, there's this other line that they've have, where if you don't have that proper test done information, you've got to go down this other path. Well, this other path meant you need to actually do the PCR tests that they required if you didn't have it at the airport. So they have this whole setup designed that if you didn't have it, you'd have to go to a test that now that's a much longer line. And yeah, greatest experience, if you just got to Aruba, and you now have to go do an COVID test that you thought you had already done, right? Um, thankfully, we got the blue little card thing. So we got to go grab our luggage head out. And it just seemed like a really simple like, if you do have it, you get to go this path. If you don't have it, you get to go, you have to we have a solution for you. But you've got to go down this other path and didn't cause this huge issue for us to try to get in and out. Now the second thing I mentioned. So what do we do we get to Aruba, we have earned our little rental rental car and we say, let's go get some bottles of water, some snacks. So that we have some stuff in our room. Well, we go to the local grocery store, or guess what they had done, guess what they had done in their process to help with social distancing. So in order to get into this store, they required you to grab a shopping cart. We didn't really think we needed a shopping cart. But if anything, we only needed one. Well, it's me my wife, and they go No, no, no, you both have to take a shopping cart. And we said well, but we both don't need a shopping cart. We only need one and they're like No, you've got to take two. Oh, they didn't explain why. So we get into the store. Everyone's got a shopping cart looks. It looks sort of weird because not everyone needs it right. So I asked one of the ladies I said hey, why does everybody need a shopping cart and they said that's our way of keeping everyone socially distance.

Rick Denton: 14:58

Love it.Love it.

Nima Khanghahi: 14:59

So, it was justinteresting to see how they had implemented certain processes throughout the country and some parts to make sure that they had accounted for this whole, you know, pandemic and COVID issue and being socially distant. Yeah.

Unknown: 15:16

That's such a truism, right? So we talked about traveler experience or that shopper experience and in a COVID world, what does that look like? And so much of the solution to customer experience is a process based one now I do hear something that it sounds like they missed out on it it's important for customers to understand the why of something so I'm glad that they did feed you the why eventually so that you weren't wondering why there is there a shopping cart lobby that is forcing the usage of all the shopping carts, but the weaving together of experience design with process design is how you create those great experiences for every customer, every traveler every shopper every time Little change of pace here. I want to imagine that trip to Aruba and stopped down in the first class lounge. Let's get a quick bite in a beverage to relax between flights will move quickly here and hopefully have some fun, Dream travel location from your past.

Nima Khanghahi: 16:15

You know, what was really cool surprising was I will we went to Qatar one time,

Rick Denton: 16:21

Ok

Unknown: 16:23

the the buildings and just the the architecture and the I mean, the opulence It was just something I didn't expect. And in I was only there for a day. And I felt like I didn't even sleep because I want to see everything. So that is probably I love to go back to Qatar. That fascinating. And to think that it had that impact after only a day thinking about the future a dream travel location you've not been to yet. Oh my god, Dream travel. Not at all explored Europe. So I'd love to just go and like, I have some family in Belgium. I'd love to go to Amsterdam. I'd love to just land there and like go everywhere I possibly can explore. You need to do the cliched backpacking trip. Just go land with a backpack and figure it out from there.

Nima Khanghahi: 17:16

That sounds great to me. Amen.

Rick Denton: 17:19

Awesome. Hey, sign me up. I'll join you. favorite thing to eat?

Nima Khanghahi: 17:25

Oh, god, this is gonna sound like I sound like a 12 year old year pizza. I love pizza.

Unknown: 17:31

Every day, there's nothing wrong with that. And if you sound like a 12 year old, well, then this guy sounds like a 12 year old to live my pizza thing your parents forced you to eat but you hate it as a kid.

Nima Khanghahi: 17:42

Oh, man. Probably vegetables. I just I avoided vegetables like the plague. I hated it. And now growing up, obviously, like, I see the value and I and I tried to get more into my system by growing up man I used to run.

Rick Denton: 18:02

I'm gonna have to keep track of the answers to that question because I think I'm batting 100% or batting 1000 on vegetables on that topic. So one travel item, you will not leave home without

Nima Khanghahi: 18:19

Oh, ah, you know, it's a really small item. But I'd say the the, like the headphone splitter for my wife and I. So we don't watch and listen to the same like movie. So we both have our headphones in and we go we can listen to the same movie, I think that we have found that will mean forgotten that that that caused a little bit of headache and pain when we were sharing one headphone together.

Rick Denton: 18:50

So thinking back to that a root trip and thinking back to the conversation we had about process and how the shopping carts were a process and how the lines were a process. You know, a lot of times people see that as separate disciplines that they're opposing factors that I'm going to focus on the inside in a process or the outside and of customer. But I know even just in that answer button before you've talked about how important processes to customer experience, how do you see those disciplines weaving together?

Nima Khanghahi: 19:18

I mean, they're intertwined, right? Like if you think about you, I see it everywhere right? I don't know if I'm just hypersensitive to this but I see it when my wife and I go to chick fil a. I see I see the drive thru at chick fil a and I can see the drive thru at the whatever competing fast food chain well there's something that has to do with the process. And if here's the thing the other day at chick fil a I remember going How do they know there's so many cars and usually it's two lanes going through this drive thru. How do they know when those two lanes weave into one to go pick up your food? How do they know that it's mine that they're bringing it out? too. And I realized on the receipt if you pay attention, you'll see they actually marked the color of your car. Oh, well, guess what, that's a whole insert like that's, that's the process. That's somebody on the outside when they first took your order, they thought through, okay, this is going to be pretty crazy and busy, we better at least mark the car that this person is in while we're taking the order, but they're taking your order so fast, you don't even realize they're doing that. They market someone on the inside sees that. Okay, great. Someone else is bringing me my food, they look at that receipt, see that it says red car, they come to me. And here we go Honda red, and I've got my food and I'm gone. I mean, something so simple as that is what allows for you to even when you see that crazy, crazy line at chick fil a, you still go with your car, you don't avoid it half the time because you go and you're like, Oh, it's going to go by fast. Yeah, that's because they've done things like that, but make the experience better.

Rick Denton: 21:02

That makes a lot of sense in it. I think that may even sort of help. When I'm thinking about how the disciplines when people talk about the disciplines being in opposition to each other. Sometimes the word process gives the implication of complexity. It's going to be a wealth, it may be well thought out, but a very complex element of process, you describe something so simple, so elegant, that it's just a tiny little mark that's made and therefore it delights the customer it makes for a better customer experience. Even though it is not even though perhaps in addition to the fact that it is driven by this small little process thing. I think of Disney as being an Of course we always talk about Disney. But Disney is such a great model in that as well. There are stories about if someone comes at 11 o'clock at night and is in the parking lot wondering where on earth is their car? Disney has these process models that allow someone to help that poor lost guest by just saying well, what time did you get to the park. And because of the way they load their their lots, and because of the fact that there's an employee, or I'm sorry, a cast member who is marking the time that each row has filled. Most people know when they arrived, even if they don't know to what parking lot they arrived, they're able to say oh, here, you're gonna be in this row. And they find that car and that poor stressed out parent at 11 o'clock at night that has the two children in tow, that is exhausted is able to find that last car. So simple, simple, simple process tics create delightful customer experience.

Unknown: 22:32

I have another one for you hit me. Uh, you know, when you and you go to Costco?

Rick Denton: 22:37

I do.

Unknown: 22:38

Have you noticed in Costco, when you walk in someone's at the front clicking like checking for your membership, and also clicking a little clicker.

Nima Khanghahi: 22:46

I missed the clicker. I always assumed they were looking to make sure that I was a member. So So next time you go at the front, there's either someone that's got a little clicker that's counting each person that's coming through. And now I believe they even have it on like an iPad, whether digitally like adding who's coming through? Well, I had always seen this and it bothered me that I didn't know why they were doing that. And so I eventually asked. And the answer I got has to do with what we're talking about. They said that they had they know the math now on how many people are coming through. And based on how many how many people are coming through, they end up adding cashiers so they that you're not having to wait in line for a long period of time. So if you notice console's process, you're typically one to two carts away from like the blue belt in being right? Yeah, for the most part. I mean, yes, there are times where you're going to be in a longer line, but for the most part, and I always wonder how do they manage that. And it's that simple, that little person in the front that's counting, that's adding to a certain number based on that number. They're flexing how many cashiers they should have, so that every one that's coming in, they have enough staff to get everyone going through faster.

Rick Denton: 24:03

That is brilliant. And it's not that they will just load it immediately, there's got to be analytics behind that, that say, when this volume hits, then the cashier load needs to increase 10 minutes from now, whatever that number might be. Right. Interesting. Well, so much of that requires So you and I just talked about very human elements to this right? We there's a place for digital and customer experience. Absolutely. This is not to diminish that. But that human element of it and the human delivery of customer experience is so important. And I know you spend a lot of time focused on onboarding and bringing new talent into a company. Why is getting that right, so important to customer experience?

Nima Khanghahi: 24:44

Yeah, look, at the end of the day. I think recruiters do an incredible job selling a company. And, you know, you can talk to any recruiter and they're like, you're like, Oh yeah, I should work for this company. Because they know they've got that pat down, well, at the, you're coming into a company, and then your first impression is typically when you start. So everything from the moment that you come in interview to when you first start and all that experience, all that is you starting to judge the company and go is this that I make the right choice that I make the right decision. It's how you understand the culture of the company, which I sort of called the attitude of the company. So for me, you know, the the small things that are done, I'll give you a real small, quick example. When I first interviewed when I first first first joined Capital One in 2010, I flew from California to Texas, to interview for the position. When I walked into the interview area, my name, and my extremely long last name was posted next to the door that I was supposed to go interview. Now, I can't I don't know, to this day, that feeling, I could still feel that feeling that still felt so good that somebody decided to take the time that it was part of their process, though, right. But they obviously knew what it was going to mean to me. Now, now the really cool thing here is, I could have not taken the job, and I would have not been a capital one. And that would have been fine. But they did that knowing the experience for me was going to was going to be great. And it was a reflection of the attention to detail the company has for associates,

Rick Denton: 26:42

I'm I'm struck in your story by the delight of the candidate experience, and how I think to when I've had candidate experiences in the past. It surprises me how many companies don't prioritize that and don't make it as much of a delight, and how what you're describing, let's say that you hadn't taken Capital One, and I know that you and Capital One are very thankful that you did take Capital One. But let's say you didn't, I bet you'd still tell that story. And I bet you would still tell that story to others, which would amplify their talent brand, which would then attract higher levels of talent and a wider swath of candidates coming in. And they're focused on candidate experience, knowing that not every person flowing through that process will become an employee. It speaks to them. And then I'd say the reverse, we won't use names, but companies that I've been a part of that clearly do not part prioritize that candidate experience. It does make you think, alright, well, what are they gonna do when they got me hooked on the inside?

Nima Khanghahi: 27:46

It totally does. Right? Because you almost, you almost have that old school feeling of bait and switch, like, Oh, I was fooled. They told me all this cool stuff. But now that I'm actually here, yeah, it's not actually the way that I thought it was going to be. But, you know, there are companies and capital ones, not the only one. There's other really great companies out there that, you know, they do practice what they preach. And that's, that's a really refreshing feeling.

Rick Denton: 28:15

Boy, it really is. Man, what a great conversation. I've so enjoyed my time with you. I've certainly learned I think you and I, there's several things we could even unpack even further. But I loved hearing about the approach of Old School New School in the real estate industry. I'm very thankful that you repaired your faucet. And I'm I'm glad that to hear that there are companies out there leveraging customer experience to make that one an educational and delightful experience, but then also a way for them to grow their own business and their brand. It is interesting to hear about travel experiences and how that brings the process and the customer experience aspect of it woven together. And then certainly the focus on onboarding, the focus on talent acquisition and what candidate experience definitely makes a statement about customer experience, employee experience, and then what those employees are going to deliver in turn for their customers. So NEMA. It was great. I loved hearing from you. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to cx passport today. I loved it. Thank you very much.

Nima Khanghahi: 29:17

I had a lot of fun. Thanks for Thanks for having me.

Rick Denton: 29:22

Thanks for joining us this week on cx passport. Make sure to visit our website cx passport.com where you can hit subscribe so you'll never miss a show. While you're at it, you can check out the rest of the E x cx website. If you're looking to get real about customer experience, e x CX is available to help you increase revenue by starting to listen to your customers and create great experiences for every customer every time. Thanks for listening to cx passport and be sure to tune in for our next episode. Until next time, I'm Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.