Rick Denton: 0:05

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode well talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. I'm a bit of a travel nerd, I'm the guy that will look up in the sky and try and determine what type of plane it is or pull out my flight tracker app to see where the flight started. So it's not an understatement to tell you that today, we are fortunate to have the Lorena Kurtjian Hernandez is the guest for cx passport. Lorena has decades of experience in the airline industry. And she has shared some interesting stories with me about how customer experience as a discipline continues to grow in that space. You know how it is when you talk with someone who just gets it when it comes to cx. That's how I felt when I first talked with laurina, especially given how I was talking to someone in the business, not just a cx person. I am deeply excited to talk with Marina today about cx and travel Lorena Welcome to cx passport.

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 1:17

Thank you so much, Rick, I'm really excited to be here with you today,

Rick Denton: 1:21

it's gonna be fun. Now, you've actually been a part of creating a brand new organization called customer experience. What's it like to be a part of the ground floor of a cx org,

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 1:31

I've actually been fortunate enough to be part of to various cx organizations that have been built from the ground up. And I think one word that sums it up nicely is exciting. And it's exciting, you know, for us in the in the industry who are so passionate about customer experience. And the focus that an organization places by creating brand new organizations, specifically dedicated to customer experience is exciting for us cx nerds, if you will. But, you know, the first time was mid 2000s, about 2006. And I can tell you that it was it felt like a mini consulting organization when the organization was created. And so people were just exhilarated and energized to be a part of it. And it was just around the time that NPS methodology was starting to get widely adopted. Across, you know, not just the airline industry, but in just in general. So, it's, it's always been super fun. And and as I mentioned, exciting. And I'll tell you a little bit about that first organization. We It was created. And at the time, we were the airline company I worked for was with measuring customer satisfaction likely to recommend, right, which which is another word for NPS that that companies use. But we we were there to modernize it. Because at the time we were collecting surveys, by paper by hand on board, and we didn't have really good methodologies in terms of how do we measure across the entire organization. So it's grown, the the focus on cx has grown. And I mentioned I've had actually been a part of two organizations. And the second one is just in the transformation space. Yeah. How do we transform the entire experience from beginning to end, regardless of what airline or what industry you're in? And that was a beginning of last year right before COVID? Hit?

Rick Denton: 3:51

Okay, which I'm sure had its own set of challenges, for sure. But I'm thinking about that. And we're gonna avoid brand names, of course, but within decades in the in the airline space, I know you've seen a lot about the changes when it comes to customer experience. And you've kind of alluded that as you've created these groups, what are some of the changes that you have seen when it comes to how companies approach comms customer experience?

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 4:12

Yeah, I would say three major changes, I think the first one I mentioned was just the modernization of how customer experience is measured. And the data that is collected, right, and so specifically, in mid 2000s, collecting surveys in a paper format, collecting them, you know, on board, which has its own set of challenges, versus today, where everything is enabled by technology. And so we're collecting information not through just through online surveys, but through our the additional touch points that an organization has with a customer so that would be the first one. The second one I would say is the operationalizing of customer experience, whereas previously, it was really a function that was typically owned by the marketing organization, which, you know, isn't always a best fit versus something that is owned by the entire company. And I mean, whether you're in marketing or whether you're in sales, really having ownership, customer experience across the entire company is something that I've seen, and has really helped to sort of modernize what we do in that space.

Rick Denton: 5:35

Right, I want to come back to that, that's something that I think we'll talk a little about, because it is important to have that overarching culture, especially something as large as an airline, and the, you know, wide range of possible roles inside of an airline. But I want to go back to those paper surveys. Yeah, and and collecting them on board, I actually do remember this as a traveler, where attendance would come down the aisle and pass out a survey and remind you how important those surveys were. But, you know, I've seen some issues with gaming the system around voice the customer, and I know it comes down to individual accountability. But what do you think influences that desire to gain the system.

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 6:12

So in my, in my experience, I would say the number one factor is company culture, for sure. You know, in the way that the collection of customer feedback and customer experience, data is being used, and explained and understood by everyone in the company from frontline employees all the way up through the C suite. So the culture and how much trust there is between frontline and management is is very much a big factor. And whether there is gaming, and how much gaming and whether, you know, frontline employees feel comfortable with the collection of that data. And I can give you an example. There's typically right and paper surveys, as you were mentioning, which you can recall being asked when you were when you traveled, when when flight attendants collect this is 1516 years ago, so I want to preface that for sure that when flight attendants, collected their survey, there is an incentive to want to turn in the surveys that speak very positively about the experience, right, and maybe maybe lose the ones that the customers that weren't so satisfied. But again, the company that company culture is, is very, very important, the trust the the level of trust, that employees have, but then also the incentive systems that exist within that company. So how strongly is compensation and benefits tied at the individual level? To those metrics?

Rick Denton: 7:51

Yeah. And that that culture speak as element really speaks to me, in the sense that if you've got a culture of trust that if a bad survey is a bad and I'm using air quotes here, every piece of information from a customer is actually good, but a survey that doesn't reflect an experience that you wanted to deliver. How about I say that, and if there's a culture of trust, that it is not a punitive type thing, but rather, we're going to learn from this, then I can see that being an element. But if there's this punitive element that we're going to go after the crew that was in the plane that somebody complained that it was too cold or something along those lines, then, of course, they're gonna Chuck that survey. And it's it is a very rational and logical choice for someone to make their

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 8:34

right. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head, right? The information should be used in a way that's used for coaching that's used to improve the experience for all customers, and not to not use in a punitive manner, just like you said it at the individual level, but just how can we collectively improve the experience for everybody, and not go after individuals who may have been named in the survey? Because they were having a bad day or whatnot. But that's absolutely critical. Making sure that the information is used, you know, in a positive as a carrot rather than a stick?

Rick Denton: 9:11

Yeah, absolutely. So I do want to there's no way I could get away with this conversation without immediately talking about travel. I can't talk to someone who has been decades in the airline industry and not talking about travel, of course. So with you working in that space, you've had to have gone some interesting places. In fact, you and I were just talking about the challenges of stand by travel. But I know that aside from that, you have you've been to some interesting places. Tell me something about your travel experiences.

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 9:38

You're absolutely right. I think in the 20 plus years I've been in the industry have been to many places, both for pleasure and business, but I would say the one that's most memorable for me would be Cape Town, South Africa. And that was a recent experience in 2019. I was there for three days, which again, when you're in the airline industry, you're you know, your trips tend to be shorter, more intense. But it was an incredible, incredible trip just being able to go to see the penguins at Boulder beach and Table Mountain and being at the southernmost point of the continent was was pretty cool and exciting

Rick Denton: 10:33

Alright, let's keep this travel theme going I'd like you to join me here in the first class lounge we will move quickly here but hopefully have a little bit of fun. What is a dream travel location from your past?

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 10:45

Italy I am enamored by that country's been there five to six times and traveled throughout and I just love everything about Italy about the country the food the music the people I could retire in Italy if I could.

Rick Denton: 11:02

I think Italy has now come up several times already in previous episodes I too would love to if not retire although that's tempting, at least where you rent that villa in Tuscany and work from there for a few months and just totally immerse in the the culture and the food and the wine and the views for sure.

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 11:20

Absolutely.

Rick Denton: 11:21

What is a dream travel location you've not been to yet

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 11:25

I have not been to New Zealand and dying to go there very much looking forward to going there and what about New Zealand's got you wanting to go there? I just picture these sort of rush you know picturesque areas I think a lot of it has to do too with you know Lord of the Rings although by no means am I a fan a huge fan but I've seen the landscape and it's just an area I've always wanted to go I've made it as far as Australia but you know if you're going to go to Australia and New Zealand you definitely need good amount of time to visit both so just I'm just enthralled by it. Really excited.

Rick Denton: 12:16

favorite thing to eat.

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 12:20

Well, this will come as a surprise but it's pizza. Given how much I love Italy. Yeah, but it's it's Neapolitan pizza. Right so so authentic Italian style wood fire. Brick Oven pizza. My favorite thing to eat

Rick Denton: 12:35

nice Now that may be a bit of a crime now that I'm talking to you in the Chicago area that maybe upset with you but I do love the the Neapolitan pizza as well.

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 12:45

Listen, I won't turn down a good deep dish. So I'm not. You know, I don't turn that turn away any good pizza. But just Neapolitan pizza, for sure is my absolute favorite.

Rick Denton: 12:57

On the flip side, what is the thing your parents forced you to eat but you've hated as a kid?

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 13:02

asparagus.

Rick Denton: 13:04

Okay. some painful asparagus memories there? Yeah,

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 13:09

yeah, I do enjoy it now, though, of course,

Rick Denton: 13:11

funny how our tastes evolve, right? I've heard brussel sprouts has come up a lot where people didn't like and now they do. I'm still in the hate side. But asparagus has shown up as well. What is one travel item you will not leave home without.

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 13:26

So my passport, which seems like Well, of course. But I do want to process that I take my passport, whether I'm traveling domestically or internationally. And the reason for that is is the the standby travel that that we briefly touched upon, right. And so what that means is as a standby traveler, you have to be ready to go rest when you really need to go east or go north when you really are trying to get south. And so even if you're trying to travel from within the domestic us, you have to be prepared to travel out of the country, if that's the best route for you to get to your final destination. So I always take my passport.

Rick Denton: 14:12

Given the complexity of an airline, bringing cx to various groups, such as Ops, or marketing or revenue management must be complex. How do you see the unification of cx data across those areas

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 14:23

where I've seen it done very well is the way the organization is structured. So the the structure of the organization is going to have a huge impact on the ability to bring all of that data into a centralized location. And so I mentioned earlier, being able to be part of actual organization called customer experience. When you have an organization like that that reports directly to the chief customer officer who's whose main job is really to ensure that the customer is front and center in everything decision, whether it is marketing, whether it's revenue management, whether it's the actual operations, that's that really helps to set up the organization to have that focus on the customer. But bringing all of that data into one central organization, who then sort of oversees it, and has the ability to share it across all the different departments. That that, that is an area that I think can be very challenging for organizations if they're already structured a certain way. But that unification of data so that an organization has a 360 view of the customer experience, be it their ticketing process, be it the policies, when it comes to refunding their their tickets, be at the onboard experience or being you know, in the airport, being able to have that entire 360 view of how the customers feel, and how they interact with it with your company is critical and being able to really understand your customers.

Rick Denton: 16:06

Boy, especially you know, when you say it like that, and I think about it as as an airline traveler myself, right? All the different, like the journeys long, a lot of times, maybe it's a quick business trip, and suddenly I buy a ticket and I'm on the plane and off I go. But in general, right, a customer is thinking about their vacation plans months in advance, and they're booking it and then that booking experience is separated by months from the actual travel experience. And the checking in with your boarding pass is separated from the baggage claim, right? It's so many different touch points and bringing that together. I like the idea of having that centralized sense that can you make sense of it in either through tools or through just bringing things together? So that's the org structure. But I know we've alluded to culture before as well. And we've talked about how culture and then language matters. How have you seen language influence and entire culture?

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 17:01

A couple of ways, especially I would say in recent years in the airline industry is using the word customer in an everyday and wrote by frontline employees, as well as all the way through to the C suite. And so let me give you an example. You know, the airline industry is, is there to transport people from point A and point B, right. And they do so using planes pretty simple. And However, for years, the metrics that we've talked about an operational sense in the airline industry is about, you know how many planes are on time how many planes were delayed, how many planes were canceled. So that language is centered on planes, it focuses on planes. But in the recent year, I've seen a big shift in talking about customers, how many customers were on time today, how many customers were affected by a flight cancellation. And so really changing that language to focus on the customer, the traveler themselves versus the plane, which, of course, is is critical for the industry. But it gives you a much better sense of we're here because of our customers. And we're, you know, the airline industry is really in critical and transporting customers via the use of planes. So changing those metrics, and in fact, you know, measuring the those the customers versus the planes, yeah, it's been a big shift that I've seen in the recent years.

Rick Denton: 18:40

I've seen that too recently that so it's, it's encouraging as a passenger, to as a customer that rides in those planes to know that that's happening inside the industry. I've seen it in financial services as well, where people historically might have referred to how many folders or files they worked in a day, but then started to speak of how many families they helped. And they're still operational metrics, but their operational metrics, they're a human lens, and bringing that humanity into it has been encouraging to see and I'm certainly glad to hear that you're describing that taking place in the airline industry as well. You know, think about that kind of blending of the operational and the customer experience aspect. And I know you and I have talked about how we've had customer experience roles for decades, but then we only realize that it was cx in the last few years. Tell me what you mean by that.

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 19:29

Um, you and I are both aware, like customer experience as a discipline is really good have really received some traction in the last 10 years, I would say. But when you think about or when I think about all of the roles that I've had in the airline industry over the last 20 years. What I've noticed is that whether it was in in the organization called customer experience or whether it was in the sales organization or in the operations itself, every single rural role has been about how do we improve upon So how do we improve the policy, whether it's in the b2c space, right for the end traveler, or in the in the b2b space where we're working with corporations or working with travel agencies. And so what what's really become apparent to me is that anytime you're working on improving that product, that policy, the experience, ultimately, that's really customer experience, because you're using your customers feedback that data to understand them better and improve their experience. And again, and that experience could be through a policy that the company has, it could be through the actual day of travel experience. And so when, you know, I started to reflect about all of the different roles I had, and that theme really was threaded throughout all of the various roles. And so that's, yeah, it definitely sort of was a lightbulb moment for me when when I thought about that, and realized, that's something I've been doing for years.

Rick Denton: 21:01

And it's something that I've certainly agree with you right, you know, whether it was called process or what it might have looked like back then it on behalf of the customer. And I think that's something that I've used to encourage folks that aren't formerly customer experience people to recognize that, you know, whatever role they're doing, it'd be a finance role, the tech role and operations role. Ultimately, it's on behalf of the customer, and how they can pivot that bringing the customer to the center of the discussion, the center of the mindset, really does influence kind of the perspective of how they they take their word for word. larina want to close on one question that's kind of putting you on the spot here. And I want you to imagine that you are standing at O'Hare, and you do have your passport in hand, and you're looking up at the departures which flight Do you take and why.

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 21:49

So assuming that I am at O'Hare and confined a flight that somehow gets me to Antarctica, that's where I would go. And I'll tell you why. I have on my bucket list the the concept that I want to travel to every single continent, and that is the one remaining continent I've not been to so I've been I've had the good fortune to travel to all other the six continents. But an article is certainly one that's on my bucket list. And I want to make sure I get to the you know, before my time to time here is that but and that could be through, you know, through South America or Australia, obviously lots of different ways to get there. But the most direct route and the quickest route to to visit that that final and seventh continent.

Rick Denton: 22:45

Well, I wish you the best in securing that maybe after we record this once you head out to O'Hare and see where you can secure that flight to Antarctica and check that one off. larina It's been a pleasure talking with you today. I've really enjoyed getting some insight just from someone who knows customer experience that can speak customer experience. But then specifically inside the airline industry as well. I certainly have enjoyed hearing about your travels as well. And definitely agree as we talked about there towards the end, how culture plays such a vital part in creating a great customer experience throughout an organization. And fundamentally the realization that a lot of us have been doing cx for decades now even if we didn't know that we were doing it. So really enjoyed the conversation today. Thank you for spending time today on cx passport. I look forward to having you back someday and wish you the best of travels going forward.

Lorena Kurtijan Hernandez: 23:40

Thank you so much that I'd love to be back and thanks again for having me today.

Rick Denton: 23:47

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. Make sure to visit our website cxpassport.com where you can hit subscribe so you'll never miss a show. While you're at it, you can check out the rest of the EX4CX website. If you're looking to get real about customer experience, EX4CX is available to help you increase revenue by starting to listen to your customers and create great experiences for every customer every time. Thanks for listening to CX Passport and be sure to tune in for our next episode. Until next time, I'm Rick Denton, and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.