👉Love customer experience and love travel? You’ve found the right podcast, a show about creating great customer experience, with a dash of travel talk. 🎤Each episode, we’ll talk with our guests about customer experience, travel, and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. Listen here or watch on YouTube youtube.com/@cxpassport 🗺️CX Passport is a podcast that purposely seeks out global Customer Experience voices to hear what's working well in CX, what are their challenges and to hear their Customer Experience stories. In addition, there's always a dash (or more!) of travel talk in each episode.🧳Hosted by Rick Denton, CX Passport will bring Customer Experience and industry leaders to get their best customer experience insights, stories and hear their tales from the road...whether it’s the one less traveled or the one on everyone’s summer trip list.
I'm Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport
Music: Funk In The Trunk by Shane Ivers
CX Passport is a podcast for customer experience professionals that focuses on the stories, strategies, and solutions needed to create and deliver meaningful customer experiences. It features guests from the world of CX, including executives, consultants, and authors, who discuss their own experiences, tips, and insights. The podcast is designed to help CX professionals learn from each other, stay on top of the latest trends, and develop their own strategies for success.
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Let’s head to Perú and talk with Sebastien Munar, CCXP about Customer Experience in South America.
Learn about the evolution of CX in Latin America and how he’s been able to create Customer Experience teams from scratch...even in an environment where the phrase "experiencia cliente" didn’t exist.
Sebastien walks us through examples where customers would pay more than 30% more because they received a better customer experience and what it takes for companies to build that better experience. Spoiler Alert!...It starts with culture.
From a land that has one of the 7 wonders of the world (Machu Pichu), Sebastien also shares with us the other 7 wonders he’s seen and the plans to see the remaining ones.
Hosted by Rick Denton, CX Passport guides you through a conversation on customer experience and travel.
Rick Denton:
You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode well talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. With a name like cx passport. It's wonderful when I get to talk to someone in a region that hasn't, hasn't been on the show before. Today, we get to expand to South America as we talk with Sebastian Munar. Sebastian a CCXP, which is a certified customer experience professional comes to us today from Peru, where he guides work in customer experience, strategic marketing and digital transformation. fluent in Spanish, French and even some Portuguese I am thankful that he is willing to tolerate my limited mano linguistic ability of English. I looking forward to hearing about his perspective on cx in the South American region along with his overall global cx thoughts. Additionally, I'm eager to hear about Sebastian's plans to tackle the seven wonders of the world. Sebastian, welcome to cx passport.
Sebastien Munar:
Thank you for edition rich man, glad to be here.
Rick Denton:
It's gonna be great. Well, you get the opportunity to introduce a South American cx perspective to our listeners, you've been at the forefront of introducing cx in the past, having had the chance to create a cx department from scratch. Tell me about that.
Sebastien Munar:
Yes, regarding the CX perspective, in South America, I consider that we're still a young market. And with high standards of human service, from the customer point of view, we have an extremely higher bar, when it comes to one to one relationship. However, from a company point of view, there is no total clarity about what customer experience release. And when we talk about maturity, we're still in the resolution stage no preventing that mean that we're still in the distinguish fire stage, that makes a big difference between other markets No, and because that's a we have a silly idea of formation, that has been a about COVID-19. And we have not all work 100% up to the level of maturity and control spectrum. And what they did, this happened because there is no deep understanding of the role of customer experience as a business. This is the year of the customer experience is officially began in 2010. The CX p was created in 2011. And it was not until 2017 or 20 18%, really that customer experience could be heard strongly here electrify America until barely three or four years ago, cx was completely a no term here. I start about 2014 in b2b company, was called brakes and channels and which was up to a year in the development of customer focus in the sector, by the time in our companies will simply call customer service, no, maybe something like that happening also in sales. And little more than two years later, I start to lead the customer experience and churn area in telecommunication company that was one of the real pioneers in customer experience management electronic records. I believe that he does here a complete turn around took place and companies began to question their internal processes and the way they put together their value propositions. And that is where I saw the early early adopters of cx in Latin. And currently, we're in the process of modifying the discipline. But there is still a challenge in terms of chain of change management.
Rick Denton:
Interesting, interesting. So you and I, when we were talking about this, the idea of experiencia Cleon day wasn't even an existing phrase there before. So you talked about the change management there. Have you seen, is there active resistance to the idea of customer experience? Or are you finding this is more about educating companies on how to create great customer experience?
Sebastien Munar:
Yes, indeed. The term didn't exist until a few years ago. I remember the son anecdotes three years ago when I started teaching Cx A at university and my friend asked me what his concept was. And just regarding the VFC x, whether it be SAS or system or cured, or a more of a formative approach was applied. In fact, both have been they have been six equation Lee and First there was a strong resistance to change with this, why I was mentioning that there is a big change management challenge they discovered to this day. And for me becoming customer centric company means generating a culture around this, this visit philosophy and braking capabilities that Amaze The business study. So, when a company does not have thin super lane, friction begin, because employees at all levels have neither the knowledge or the tools to support this new path of putting the customer at the center of the business. And this generates fear or frustration in them, which later translates into resistance to change. Therefore, that is the most important because that make them part of the change and show, then why is it awkward? formation is a necessary No. And that is where the part of delegation training and our hope for permanent support begins where ambassadors only turn up a promoters note, taking the NPS of this culture of stress preparation must be great. I work a lot for that. And I'm in my third digital formation. And I have seen firsthand the importance of managing these changes correctly. And step by step.
Rick Denton:
Oh, yeah. No, that makes that makes a lot of sense. And when you talk about the digital transformation aspect of it, I can. I'm thinking about something you said at the very beginning. And you talked about how in latam, there's this one to one culture of customer service and engagement and being you know, delivering a great customer experience on the one to one but not at the company level. I'm thinking about that, how that plays from the human aspect as you talk about a digital transformation. So as you walked companies through that change management of a digital transformation, how did you continue to connect with the employees that they would still be able to deliver that human aspect of customer experience that they had been providing before.
Sebastien Munar:
For me, it's particularly important to teach by example, to be able to have a spectrum of experience in different roles and areas, because they believe in you. And that generates a greater empathy in all employees at every level of their organization. For example, I'm going to tell you literally have my sorry, the dream that like many of today's customer experience, professional ideas does not start out usually in these disciplines. In fact, my career started something differently, that is finance, economics, but my professional career led me by chance to have the opportunity to react in other areas, such market insurance, pricing, this planning study, and to learn about different sectors. No, and I think that is the priceless Lee, allow me to open path for customer experience, and to create a more minister wait the primary from scratch, and to make a party with my, my team. No. And I think that's the idea of customer experience, that data is a cross functional discipline. And you have to understand deeply, all areas, all departments, all gain of jobs, because that is when employees, a say, Oh, this guy understood me in a deeply way.
Rick Denton:
All of those experiences helped bring you in a position where you're able to understand what the various employee groups are the various employees, as individuals, what their experiences, they go through that change, because you may have actually worked in that space, you may have actually had that direct experience in that space. So you can speak their language you can speak their, their experience and understand and that classic version of empathy. Let me let me pivot a little bit here. So I'm thinking about your experience that you're describing. And I know we're going to talk about those seven wonders of the world here in a little bit. But I also know that you spent some time studying in Spain. And so I want you to tell me a little bit about that experience, both as a student and as a traveler. What was that? Like?
Sebastien Munar:
That's a great question. The reason that I love to travel really, I have visit so far 30 countries in the world and I have leave for free in different cities in America, Latin America and Europe. And I remember my stay in Spain with way affection really, I was in Madrid, Stein, my master's degrees in marketing for 14 months. In fact, I have to decide between Paris and Madrid, but because I have French family and I say them to go to a different country, with no other places or to have a real estate experience. So I have the family side by side. I was it was an interesting experience because of the work that people are finding are really great people and all their dreams like I was able to do it from there. I did. tours into Europe visit several countries. And occasionally also I took the parade to go to Paris to see my family. I love the ease with which you can travel within Europe is really different in Jamaica, the distance here actually no different. So from the street, I get the lakes of Monterey, Italy and Switzerland, Bruce Porto and steam Paris because even though I have a system in place that doesn't have time, I still find it amazing every time I go, and within Spain that I go visit Well, I love the Balearic Iceland. Actually, my surname is from the founder and the north of Spain in San Sebastian in the Basque Country, because he because of my name, right I and on the side of the skin spirits is was really complex, because you you must learn to manage on a limited budget to magic. So make so many times to be able to travel and take advantage of being Europe. However, I remember that. I always say that it's more difficult to be able to study well when you're so much partying. Because there really is the famous but the Jonas right and but even so I still managed to come out I be to be the first of my entire graduating plus the master.
Rick Denton:
Oh, wow. Okay, that's great.
Sebastien Munar:
Yeah, I would have been, and for the experience. For me, that was almost nine years ago, it was really very important to understand that having a global view, to always seek to be in contact with different people in the world, and to exchange perspective and experience with professionals from other regions of the world.
Rick Denton:
Little change a pace here. Join me in the first class lounge, we'll move quickly here and hopefully have some fun. What is a dream travel location from your past?
Sebastien Munar:
I will say Israel, I always wanted to know the technology side of the lobby versus more the more mystical side of Jerusalem.
Rick Denton:
Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting, right. You know, most people talk about doing the faith tours in Jerusalem. But you're right, Tel Aviv has a phenomenal technology base as well. Definitely a great place dream travel location you've not been to yet.
Sebastien Munar:
Definitely Indonesia. I imagined myself by the central beach.
Rick Denton:
Yeah, I think we'd all like to be on a beach. That's for sure. What is a favorite thing to eat?
Sebastien Munar:
That's a tough question. Because you know, Peru has the best foods in the world, right?
Rick Denton:
And you're not biased. <laughter>
Sebastien Munar:
My favorite Korea for the sweet chili and the most hotel as an international dish. I really like lasagna. And for French dish, a Coco vie, a shiva montier
Rick Denton:
Very nice. You and I are simpatico when it comes to sub Vichy and then not related but lasagna, those two are some of my favorites as well. What is the thing your parents forced you to eat? But you hate it as a kid?
Sebastien Munar:
I will never forget when my parents forced me to eat broccoli. And they did not believe me that that they hid it. After that day, I think they understood.
Rick Denton:
Perhaps we want to ask how you demonstrated how much you hated it. But at least we'll just know that you did your parents work? What is one travel item you will not leave home without?
Sebastien Munar:
I don't have an item like that. But I have to confess that I'm a person who likes to travel with a lot of clothes in the luggage.
Rick Denton:
Sebastian, I want to go back to the idea of cx customer experience growing as an interest in the latam region. Are you seeing customers actively voting with their wallets to go where the experience is better?
Sebastien Munar:
Well, definitely customer experience for me is a competitive advantage. That is all it has to be difficult to copy. No, you can copy products, you can copy services, you can copy software's etc. But laterally customer experience cannot be copied IE if it's learned over time and it must be the first thing to be internalized through the rotation. Therefore, it takes time to the competition to direct seminars, organizational capabilities. And for me, just that is the volume position that I say as an analogy. No. For me, it's the choice of the I start in the holes. Well, of course. There is no a better start than other, but there must be a default for you know, for each person. Yeah. So that is why there is an externally stressor, experience segmentation and understanding work to be done companies that understand that your needs in their customers are greater willingness to pay and get out of the price fighting. So now, I have worked in a company where we had to, we had a price 30% higher than the competition is it was a lot, no. And there was still a large group of customers than were willing to pay it for a much better experience No, and, and I will be always be in favor of quality over quantity. And for me customer relations are done from the sales with a value proposition that really aligns with this customer wants, and obviously reinforcing throughout their journey, and why they should continue to pay for pre purchase display services. This relationship is in every interaction in the customer experience. For me. It's full expression.
Rick Denton:
Yeah, I'm actually interested about that 30% higher price, and the customer is willing to pay for that better experience. So right there, there's an example of the customers that are absolutely using their wallets. Can you tell me a little bit more about that experience? What was it that the company did? That was so much more delightful that customers would choose it even at a higher price?
Sebastien Munar:
Yes, that was an example in telecommunication company, we will focus on three pain pain points, or in this case, there were touch points, because we reconvert. No, we focus on the first on the isolation have the system now because we will have to install into this versus our competition that we're selling in 15 to 30 days, oh, my god of difference. So for certain we have a difference in in the NPS of 60% points. So imagine the difference? Yeah, for me is the only only time in my life or my career life that I will see the difference in NPS because it's allowed me to know, then we focus on the billing touchpoint. Also, there was a lot of firms there in comparison with the competition. Because we we started a project to digitalize this billing process now, five years ago, was a big difference between now so the technology, the software, we can use it, maybe now they are completely different. And we can maybe improve, but five years ago, that was really up your near improvement in this billing process. And then on Finally, the customer service, and very focused on the call center. No, because Okay, still in Peru, when we are not automatize caught contrary, no. So the call centers still have a big, big weight in all the channels mix. So we prove that and, and there was a big advantage for us, because people after the goal there, they were writing to us francs a spanking and the way we treat them. And when we we did the closed loop, we understand that this was this quality of relationship now to understand deeply the problem and to make their solution not only to the wall into the face noise, very empathizing with them. So with these three touch points is ready. We we achieve to make this difference, and to translate this into the willingness to pay.
Rick Denton:
Yeah, and I especially love that because we hear often that the call centers a call center. And there's a lot of focus on squeezing and I understand their business realities and operational realities. But what I like in the approach that you're describing from that company, is they discovered that by investing in that and by providing a better experience in that space, they were able to achieve a much higher price point 30 percents pretty significant the telecom space, and be able to deliver a better experience and see the higher return as a result. I really liked that part of the story for sure. I know that the seven wonders of the world are on your list. So I want you to talk a little bit about that. What have you hit so Far, and then I want to hear about your future plans for the seven
Sebastien Munar:
of course. Well, so far I have done three a Machu Picchu which is in my country, Chichen Itza, that is in Mexico on the Roman Colosseum, we need to know. In fact, this this New Year 2000 22,021, my girlfriend and I went to went again to teach in itself. And it's really amazing to either always feel it was fear. And this year, we will go again to Cusco together, and we will surely see Machu Picchu. I know. Something very funny is that I have been very close to to her wonders of the world. like years ago, I was in China. And I was about to go to the Chinese walk by this, but due to logistical issue, I got I got a complication. And two years ago, I went to Israel, and I thought about going to Petra, but you will be a recent return to that for a part of the world. And my girlfriend and I have the goal of visiting the seven wonders of the world together. So we plan to visit this new year, the Corcovado crease in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, and I speak to practice my my Portuguese.
Rick Denton:
Very good did that takes us to all seven?
Sebastien Munar:
Yes, a with that, I think only a it's the Taj Mahal in India that okay, it still is listing this.
Rick Denton:
Well. I hope that you get to see those soon. I've seen I've seen some of the ones on the list. I will attest that Machu Picchu is one of the I'm running out of adjectives here. But one of the more spectacular but that's understating it experiences as you see that that site and see it built amongst the mountains. And I think that's the part that I didn't realize until I was there. How remote It really is. But how advanced it was and and shocking to see that. Yeah, I too have had an experience where I'm close to one of the seven wonders but didn't get there. And I'm I'm still upset with myself, I was on a trip to India and was reasonably close to the Taj Mahal maybe an hour or two away, and simply for logistics was unable to make that trip. And to say a regret, it is about a bit of an overstatement. But to be so close, maybe I'll take your attitude. And that is it just provides me another reason to go back there and explore that wonder at some point.
Sebastien Munar:
always a positi e mindse
Rick Denton:
Yeah, well, you're bringing me a positive mindset. Sure. And I certainly enjoyed hearing that. But let's let's close out actually, with one of the key elements to cx programs, something that you've talked about, you know, making customer experience programs and departments and projects successful. And that's tying that Customer Experience Program department, what have you to financial results. How are you going about doing that?
Sebastien Munar:
Well, for me, there are two particularly important things. First, our culture must be created that sees a cx as a business discipline. And that seeks to increase financial and medical skills in the organization. Many companies say they know how to do particular quantitative things or customer experience level, but they only measure NPS and that is not a blind complete cx economics operation cycle. It's for that training brand must be generated at older ethical levels of these type of skills and generic champions are less important different business areas as well as aligning a single model to the company and between cx business areas and finance, the finance does not actively participate in this process. Will we not make sense, since they are the final validators of these models. And when the first step is in place, we must begin the process of making the springs tangible. For this, the key is to identify two things. First, the customer has a perception of metrics such as NPS c sat success, then to the drivers of experience. In other words, if is if the perception metrics improve, in what way will they back the business, such as permanent stop selling, selling efficiency, etc. And finally, the business metrics, the specific indicator that the driver will change for example, churn, conversion rate, percentage, percentage of all, etc. With this information, we can build the model. For example, if a customer experience initiative generates five percentage point improvement in NPS and we're our internal negation business, then that will be reflected rotation driver through the trend metric. So how much does five percentage points mean in the lower term? Let imagine that it means reduction from 2% to 1.5%. Therefore, this 0.5% change permit can be monetized thanks to the absolute number of customers that the percentage means in a total waste of the company multiplied by the ticket of each one of them. So if you have the final packs, and then you can multiply that by the margin and have a bit that terms now, for me, the biggest challenge will always be linking the perception, the perception matrix with the business model. That is why I always say that the complexity of this is objectified the subject.
Rick Denton:
I love the phrasing, I definitely love that phrasing. And it's something that we all struggle with, right, and being able to tie that human emotion, human behavior to the cold hard numeric calculation. So thank you for guiding us through that. For sure, Sebastian, it's been a delight talking with you. I really appreciate guiding me and I certainly have learned more about customer experience in the South American the Latin American region than I ever knew before. I appreciate that. I have a newfound appreciation for the seven wonders of the world and have all tabbed over to another screen a little bit later. And we'll be booking my plans trying to figure out how to hit those seven because they are so spectacular. And then I like how you close us out with not just kind of an esoteric approach to ROI for CX, but really getting at some of the tactical layers. And I appreciate that and learned a ton. It's been a blast talking with you. I hope that you will come back on cx passport someday and we'll be able to explore even more growth in the region when it comes to customer experience. Thanks, Sebastian. It's been a delight. And I wish you the best of the rest of your day.
Sebastien Munar:
Thank you very much, Rick, thank you for the invitation, and I really enjoyed the conversation.
Rick Denton:
Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. Make sure to visit our website cxpassport.com where you can hit subscribe so you'll never miss a show. While you're at it, you can check out the rest of the EX4CX website. If you're looking to get real about customer experience, EX4CX is available to help you increase revenue by starting to listen to your customers and create great experiences for every customer every time. Thanks for listening to CX Passport and be sure to tune in for our next episode. Until next time, I'm Rick Denton, and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.
