Rick Denton: 0:05

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode well talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. When you have the opportunity to have a guest who can be addressed as Doctor, you know, you're in the presence of wisdom. Thankfully, today's guest Dr. DeWitt has asked me to call him Tom. So he we're both in wise and informal. And I've come to know Tom through shared customer experience networking and find him to be one of the most interesting people out there. When I first talked with Tom, he was wrapping up a long term stay in Ecuador. Once I realized that I knew I would get a great, great global perspective on customer experience from Tom, along with a wonderful global perspective, both in cx and just life in general. Tom is instrumental in driving education in the customer experience space, helping to bring unity to what is often a globally fragmented approach to cx. And of course, we'll talk travel given Tom's approach to the globe. Tom, welcome to cx passport.

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 1:22

Hey, thanks for having me here. Always a pleasure.

Rick Denton: 1:24

Yeah, it's gonna be fun. So I know, you and I have become connected because of that shared interest in the globe. Tell me, why is that global perspective, so important for customer experience?

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 1:37

Um, to me, it's, it's, well, it's important for a couple reasons, one, the cultures in which we're, we're born and raised, how to shape us as consumers on both in terms of how we, how we, how we make decisions, and who influences those decisions. And so I think, you know, from a consumer standpoint, it's it's, it's really fascinating to understand, I spent 10 years spending a month in Korea every summer teaching Asian consumer behavior. And it was, it was fascinating because I spent much of my life living and working in Asia on but perhaps Korea like no other place do other people than the person actually purchasing have a say and influence in the process, from where people go to school, the jobs that they, they, they choose, the clothes that they wear are all a reflection of the personal influence that their friends and parents and other other family members have on them, primarily through normative influence a series of rewards and punishments. So you've got that on one end of the spectrum. And then on the other end of the spectrum, and we're seeing that right now with COVID. And how some people are choosing to deal with it is a country and a culture that's based on individual choice and an individual freedoms. And oftentimes, the individual and his or her needs coming from those before those of the group which is a total opposite of Asia. So that's fascinating, what's also very fascinating and a reason to have a global perspective is how service providers or product providers and other countries help to deliver deliver on needs that are essentially common across human beings around the planet. From from how we eat, to how we groom ourselves to it. Another thing interesting thing about about Korea and and the influence of the group is is the abundance of mirrors, you say, see everywhere because people have to check to check their parents, you know, so I think the, to me, what's interesting is first of all, you have this wide range of cultural differences in terms of consumers and if you think about the consumer decision making process and what comes to bear on that, and then you have how businesses or organizations in different cultures serve those needs, and how they they differ and that you know, honestly, it's that that drives me to travel so much because I love to experience different cultures as a consumer, but also as a as a marketer and customer experience practitioner. I love to watch how they do it. You know, I'm in Where are their opportunities where they're sharp shortfalls where they're just interesting perspectives. I think one of the things we talked about in our last conversation was how, in an Ecuador, yogurt is, is consumed in liquid form. And it often comes in gallon jugs. And sometimes even in plastic bags that you clip the corner and you pour it into a glass. So, I mean, to me that that's fascinating. Another example, I was in Copenhagen A few years ago, and we, my wife and I were staying in a service apartment and said, I wonder if there's a washer and dryer in here we searched high and low, we couldn't find it. And she's in the bathroom says, I found it. And I go where and said it's in the vanity, it was literally a pocket size, small size. It was a washer with an extractor. So that's the other thing that's interesting is that many countries around the world don't use dryers. They'll though use an extractor as part of the washing process. In fact, in Korea, the leaving warm up the laundry, so when you pull it out of the washer, it's warm, and it's damp. And then you hang it on a hanger, you hang it on another drying device. So I think you know, it's important as customer experience professionals to understand and respect the fact that there are multiple ways to come at a common problem like eating nutrition or washing clothes, and that feel that your perspective is the only way or the best way. So to me it's that global perspective is open important for opening up our minds and understanding both the consumer as well as practitioners.

Rick Denton: 6:50

Yeah, and I think Yes, certainly hearing you and the travels that you've had and the fact that we'll talk later about your experience down there in Ecuador, I I'm definitely looking forward to hearing more about that. But it is so true that when you do get the chance to travel when you do see other cultures it opens your eyes if they weren't open already to the fact that hey, just because the way I do it back home, that doesn't mean it's I say the right way or the wrong way it's just my way or a different way. And so I think it definitely shows how those global travels have influenced your perspective on cx in life, I know that it's been the same for me so but I'm thinking about that. So if we've settled that argument, not that there was much of an argument, right, that the importance of a global perspective so I'm curious for those who let's say that travel isn't available to everyone how do we create that global perspective and customer experience so I know for example when I see a lot of the voices that I see on LinkedIn and that space tend to be folks that live and look like me, but thankfully it's not exclusively so but it's certainly overwhelmingly so I'm kind of curious when you say that global perspective how do you make sure that we're learning from cx leaders and geographies and cultures that aren't like mine but also beyond that helping to expand the CX is a discipline beyond Western and white?

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 8:07

Um, you know as as a as an older white male You know, I'm constantly reminded I'm lived in a condition of privilege so i think you know, when I think of diversity, equity inclusion in general and this global perspective and others perspectives in particular I'm reminded that all of us have a role you know, all of us have a role in diversity Equity and Inclusion just because you don't consider yourself to be prejudiced or you don't you know, or you don't consider it we don't consider that you don't that that you respect other people's opinion I think it's important that all of us play a proactive role and encouraging different perspectives in whatever position we're in so for me that means you know from cx FM radio the podcasting network that we've created for cx I purposely seek out other perspectives to be on or you know to seek out women's opinions to seek out minority opinions on so you know, that's why when you look at when you look at our portfolio it's not just filled with with white males although my white male seem to dominate the discussion on on LinkedIn to to your point yeah, so I think it's it's playing a role in helping to seek out those opinions and elevate and elevate them um and and I feel that way and everything that I do so it's it's it's seeking out contacts and other countries. In fact this morning on our podcast, we we interviewed on Someone from from Germany that's come up with a really unique way to view jobs to be done and consumers progress in accomplishing jobs to move down. So I think it's it's reaching across the globe. In fact, it's interesting I, I was just on campus, haven't really spent much time on campus in the past year and a half. And was thinking about walking back into the classroom and, and what does someone at my age? Who's had my experiences? What? What do I need to impress on my students who are at the same university where I started 40 years ago? What do I need to impress on them about life, and what's important to me, you know, the thing that really stuck with me is stepping out of their comfort zones, never getting comfortable and and for me, it's, it's changing your environment, I think that's an earthen, you know, step out of your comfort zone, put yourself and in someone else's environment and learn, to understand to feel and understand what it means to be there. And that's part of global travel, right? Yeah, so I get to appreciate and understand their perspectives. That's why when I was living and working in Ecuador, I purposely sought out locals to befriend the most comfortable thing for me to do would have been to seek out other Americans. So we can talk about American things and how we hated certain things, and I hate it. That's one thing I hate about, and no disrespect to my fellow Americans. But when they move to other countries, and they spend their time complaining about it. So I think it's, it's that, you know, stay uncomfortable, get yourself in uncomfortable situations where you're going to grow and develop and appreciate the way that that people do things there. And, and to gain and under standing and perspective, what it means to live in that culture, by befriending the people who are there, you know, I think it comes from community building to a lot of what I do, but 75% of my time is spent on community building and bringing people of diverse backgrounds and opinions together to share their understanding and knowledge of, of customer experience. Management this morning, I had four people on a call, one was in hungry, one was in on the west coast of the US. And let's see where were the other two, in the middle somewhere, you know, and I had a lot of those calls. So I think that, you know, it's really build communities bring people together, and purposely seek out people from backgrounds who are different than yours, and those in your community so that they can better understand.

Rick Denton: 12:59

I like that approach. And I think you will have several themes in there that make a lot of sense to me. One is let's start with travel for a second, right, getting uncomfortable travel often is, well immersive travel is that getting uncomfortable getting out there, there's a place for relaxation, travel, and I'm not against that or anything like that. But that exploratory and immersive travel. That's how you really get to understand that culture. And I know I will talk a little bit more about your Ecuador experience, because there's a lot that you've got down there. But that idea of consciously choosing to not seek out voices that aren't your voice, and seek out ways to amplify those voices is important. I think there's kind of a the other side of that, too. So there's voices out there that already have that and is a part of cx disciplines and understanding and approaches across the globe. But I know that there's also this desire to sort of create this education and create sort of a global understanding of customer experience. And and the approach to that, and I know that's something that you've taken a very practical approach to having launched the building process for that cx master's program at Michigan State University, I really would like for you to spend some time help me understand that vision, that cx master's program, what do you see with that? How do you see that growing? And kind of what's the vision and the growth for that?

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 14:17

Okay, great, great, great question. Something I think about? Well, I mean, the first thing, we're not, I'll be completely honest with you a little over three years ago, I'd never heard of CX, I was living in Hawaii, working in Hawaii had been there 11 years made the decision to return to Michigan State primarily for career reasons, but more because I need to be in an environment where I was contributing and feeling fulfilled. I had worked in what hadn't been customer experience management to then till then, you know, I think quite remember We call call it back then. But maybe it was customer experience, but we just hadn't put the CX on it yet. But I had my own consulting firm there. And while I was a professor in Hawaii, but I have this opportunity when I came to Michigan to lead an initiative around customer experience that I could pick and choose what I wanted to do and drive it. And initially, it was on community building, if you haven't already gathered, I love bringing people together, um, because I feel that there's so much to be learned from one another. So my focus was on community building. And it started very practically, with one day, industry best practice programs at Michigan State where we brought people together in person. And that was part of that effort, where I was doing networking, and LinkedIn and and I realized that, you know, the practitioners and cx come from very divergent backgrounds, from market research to sales to supply chain management, you name it. And in talking to those people, what kept coming up in discussions was, CX is from, you know, every time I bring it up, now, people just start nodding their head, and there are different interpretations of what I'm not gonna write, you know, naturally, what what do you mean by that, and in generally, they fell into one of two areas. One was the skill sets are fragmented, meaning, you know, there are people that working in an organization and cx function, but there are very people who have a comprehensive, comprehensive set of skills necessary to effectively manage customer experience for an organization. The second definition of fragmentation was how the organization defined, you know, in the most comprehensive and holistic sense, customer experience, management should be a mindset, and an organization with every everyone in the organization a singular focus on the customer, or how to meet their needs and supporting it. But oftentimes, you find CX is confined to the call center, or consumer insights, right. Um, so I view that as a call to action, you know, in fact, I think it was at our first symposium, that I announced to the crowd, that we were going to begin working on creating a master's degree in customer experience management, because my research had found very few programs in the world. And, you know, and seemingly, you know, again, thinking back to LinkedIn, very few people out there that whose career was based on a solid foundation of an academic discipline. So when it came to building this out, even with the first symposium, the thoughts were around what were what are the different competencies that are necessary to, to effectively manage a customer experience from being a customer centric organization and customer experience management being a natural extension of that, to understanding the customer and the employee? And I think that's the other big part of this process, and I'm sure you've had conversations about is the importance of not only leadership alignment, but employee engagement, you know, to what extent does everyone in the organization understand not only the mission and vision of the company, but is what is their personal role in delivering on the needs of the customer? And how is that embedded in the values of the organization? And how are those values are reinforced and reflected in individuals who work there to experience design. So there's plenty of organizations out there that have customer personas and journey maps on the shelf, but very few know what to do with them, because oftentimes, they are done by out outside consultants. And, you know, data integration and visualization, putting the right information in front of the right people. And again, employee experience and employee engagement. So, you know, we basically boil down all that down to four, five core competencies and our degree program that kind of reflect what I've talked about, and 15 modules that fall within those five main competencies. And it's that, to me, that's kind of become our roadmap for advancing customer experience management globally. So while the degree is in The approval process right now at Michigan State, it's about two thirds and we expect it to be fully approved in December, with a launch of the degree next mail will be fully online 15, five week modules 20 weeks long, targeting working professionals anywhere in the world, we've taken a unique approach in developing the degree and and in marketing the degree in that we're focused on on companies and corporations or organizations and their cx function. Yeah, so this is more of a partnership with organizations to not only enroll their employees in the degree, which they have to agree to, to ensure that rice one employee is in there, because we want to make sure they buy into that process. But to work as a collaborative, so what started as an advisory board is now a collaborative in advancing the field. So so far, it's 34 corporations that have signed up to be part of this collaborative. And they serve on one of eight action teams, five around the core competencies I've talked about another one in diversity, equity inclusion, which you've already brought out, right, it's important. And then two around functional areas webinar and conference to delivery and the other marketing communications. And the goal is to deliver conferences globally to deliver webinars, all focus on industry best practices, and those five functional areas and 15 modules, as well as creating support groups around the five core competencies of customer experience management, and a mentorship program. And I'll also add industry support groups, because there seems to be a lot of interest there. With all of these entities, all these activities being run by collaborative collaboration members, I expect that number to grow from 35, to hopefully to 70. And eventually 100. Corporations around the world right now the 34 corporations are largely in the US we have a couple hours outside the US. But you know, back to our discussion previous Yeah. As we want those perspectives, right, you know, so if we have an industry support group for the insurance industry, and there are members from Asia and Latin America and Europe and North America, how do they approach a common issue in that industry? And how do they approach it differently? And what can they learn from it?

Rick Denton: 22:58

That is one heck of a program that you're putting in place, Tom, I gotta imagine that, with all of your travels with all of that, sometimes it's nice to just kick back and relax a little bit. So let's have a little change of pace here. Join me in the first class lounge. We'll move quickly here and hopefully have some fun. What is a dream travel location from your past? Man? Yeah,

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 23:18

you know, I get asked that question a lot. And I've been to over 40 countries I've lived in for now. And what was my favorite and, you know, it's an amalgamation of all of them. I shared with you Cuenca. Ecuador is a very, very special place. It's it. It reminds me in terms of the architecture, a lot like Europe, and even like cafe and restaurant culture a lot like Europe or they, they take food and dining very seriously, things move a little bit slower, but the result comes out so much better. You know, so much passion goes into the food that's made there and so much love. And the people are amazing. When I lived in quake, I was so proud to say that my my best friends were restaurant owners because they were I made a point to get to know the restaurant owners is usually husband and wife and after a while they treated me like family every time I came in. So cranko holds a real strong place and in my heart. I've also had incredible experiences in South Africa. I went head band in Africa before, didn't know what to expect in South Africa. I spent three weeks staying in Stellenbosch which is about half an hour northeast of Cape Town in the mountains in the middle of wine country, nice. The second oldest city in South Africa. Still a lot of architecture there that was heavily influenced by the Dutch you know still had thatched roofs. But again, the people the warmth of the people, and they're, you know, so so and so engaging on a personal level and, and again it comes back to food. The floor was splendid and I'm a person who travels on my stomach quite literally, you know to me that to go hand in hand so enjoying that 120 wineries and in that area. And then Asia I have a long love affair with with Asia that started in 1986. I was one of the first Hospitality Management educators and China in fact, I was on a national committee back then in China that helped shape the curriculum for hospitality management education at university level in China was a very different world. But Asia, to me the differences across countries, but then the commonality that runs through them with the Asian culture has always fascinated me. One thing that stands out was running a motorbike in a slum near a small in a small town and in Thailand and in driving up into the mountains and stopping at the roadside and looking down at terrorist rice paddies and someone in the rice fields or the water buffalo. And it's I call those National Geographic moments where I get chicken skin, you know, and I've had, I've had a really great life. So that that was amazing. I was near where the Golden Triangle used to be and ended up in a small village and tea country where they grew tea that was grown by former Kuomintang soldiers who came there after when the communists took China over in 1949, they end up being mercenaries for the drug trade. And when the drug trade fell apart there, they end up growing tea and it was one of the tea shops there that for whatever reason, the owner approached this white male and asked me if I spoke Chinese, I think in Chinese and I was able to speak enough Chinese to guy there and so yeah, it's those kind of things and, and I could go on and on, I could go, you know, the encounter I had with a woman and her and her infant child and in a cobra and hydro BOD in India. I was I one of my walkabouts as I like to do whether it's on motorbikes. And I came across a woman with a baby in her arms, and usually at means they're bagging, you know, and they usually approached you and they put their fingers to their mouth to ask for some money for some food for their baby. But this time that woman she had a basket and enter, enter on HANA, rare, fairly large basket, and she took the lid off, and a cobra jumped out. I knew enough that the Cobra was probably defying, but it shocked me so much around, I literally ran away. So you know, when you asked me about my favorite travel memory, I have so many and there's not one place. And, you know, it's it's that ability to engage with the culture and the people in those conversations. And, you know, I can remember in South Africa, I got to know the women that worked in the bed and breakfast where I stayed and, and I thanked them. I said, Thank you for helping me to fall in love with South Africa. I said, I don't want to leave. And it was at that point they, they invited me to stay and actually move in with them.

Rick Denton: 28:38

Oh my gosh. Oh,

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 28:39

yeah. You know, I know,

Rick Denton: 28:42

I knew that asking you that question would create just a set of stories that I could tell her joy. Yeah. Well, delightful to hear. So now I'm going to try the same challenge of a question in that same space. But what is a dream travel location? you've not been to yet?

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 28:59

Antarctica? Yeah, yeah, I yeah. You know, I've been most most of the places in the world where there's people I'd love to go to a place where there aren't many, but then there's that. That natural beauty. So um, yeah, that that that's definitely on my list. So so an article as well as other places, you know, South America and Ecuador. Were on my list before because it was a place right where I hadn't been. But other places like Iceland. Again,

Rick Denton: 29:32

you just have an ongoing just wondering, you just need to get out on the road. It sounds like this will be

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 29:38

another reason why I got up and left for Ecuador. I had, I have this constant itch that needs to be touched. But you know, I think it comes from a natural curiosity about the rest of the world and our place in it too. I think the beauty of travel is it's, it forces you to look back at yourself in your own life

Rick Denton: 29:58

travelers are frequently the most curious. People that are out there so let me keep us going here in the first class lounge I know that we talked about how you travel on your stomach so I think I'm asking you a challenging question again but my favorite thing to eat

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 30:11

um Singapore Hawker center food if there's one place in the world if he asked me if you choose one place in the world to eat where would it be it would be in Singapore and in Singapore and I can give you a laundry list from char kway tiao to carrot cake to, to hockin me to saute to so on wash on it go to Singapore and a Hawker center and for two or $3 you can choose from different stalls all that specialize in different food. And yeah, if I know that and one of my one of my all time favorite things to eat is a Midwestern favorite. American fry for breakfast, American fries with onions, and two eggs. basted. That would probably if I had to choose one last meal, probably because it's my comfort food. Yeah. But you know, I grew up as a kid, it was a treat for me on a Saturday to go to a diner and, and, and have home fries or American fries, grilled potatoes, or grilled onions. And I know it's blasphemy to some people, but I put ketchup on my on my bass headaches and potatoes, too. But I think, yeah, that would be my last meal.

Rick Denton: 31:28

Yeah, nobody tells you what to eat. If you enjoy it, you eat it by God. So So now I don't know if this is going to work or not. But what is a thing your parents forced you to eat, but you hate it as a kid.

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 31:38

You know, I'm fortunate I never hated any food. But if I have a childhood memory, a bad memory with food, it's being made to sit at the table to finish food that was put on my plate, and I hadn't eaten. And I remember that food was a cold hamburger. There's nothing worse than a cold hamburger sitting on your plate. But you know, I've always loved fruits. I've always loved vegetables. And so there's nothing if there's one thing that I've that I refuse to eat though it's it's durian, which is kind of smells like an armpit. And I'm told it's delicious. But I'm not I'm not going.

Rick Denton: 32:22

Well, let's close out the lounge with one, one travel item. So I like to ask folks, you know, what is one travel item you can include your phone that you will not leave

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 32:31

I mean, not including my passport, too. home without,

Rick Denton: 32:35

That's true. I think my last guest said passport so I have to start excluding no phone, no passport.

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 32:41

Alright, toothbrush, let's see. So I mean, in today's world, if I have my passport, and a toothbrush, and I've got enough cash to buy anything else I want, then then I'm free. You know, in fact, I'm kind of become, you know, when I went when I, when I went to Ecuador, not necessarily knowing I was going to be there for six months, but knowing I was going to be there for three months, I went there with enough clothes to keep myself comfortable. And that was a to me. You know, part of the fun is remaking your life wherever you go, you know, and not not taking along the necessities and I'm taking back to a story someone shared with me about a about a college student going on on one of those, you know, those college trips, where they they learn and everything taking Oh, it was it was supposed to be backpacking in the jungle in the Caribbean. And they brought a suitcase instead of a backpack despite and they brought along a hairdryer. Not not thinking where they would ever so you know, I when I travel. I prefer to adapt. So you know, one of my that same trip where I went up in the mountains, I had forgotten that I had left my passport as collateral when I got the motorbike. And when the day came for me to leave that location. I couldn't find my passport anywhere. And I was horrified. And I finally say Well, I hope it's there. And it was. So really the only thing I need to travel is is my passport.

Rick Denton: 34:18

And Tom, what, what a phenomenal set of travel and eating. And just it's clear that you've got this perspective of the globe. And that's one of the things that I really admire with you. And I'm sitting here thinking, Oh my gosh, we're almost out of time, I'm clearly going to have to have you back on as a guest. Sometimes we can amplify other areas. But I want to talk to you a little bit about that trip in Ecuador, a promise that we'll talk about that and here's our chance. But one of the things that impressed me when you and I were talking earlier is is and you've woven it even into our conversation already but it's this this deep spirit on assimilation that you you don't go to just be sort of a bungee exposure but rather you're really trying to assimilate and I know that's not always the case with ex Pat so I'm kind of just go wide ranging as you To close us out here so why do you choose to assimilate how do you go about that and then you know what are people really missing out on when they don't fully dive into that new culture be at full scale expat style or just on their their vacation travels

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 35:15

what really drives me my my motivation for travel is based on curiosity right so it's based on learning and understanding different cultures and it's hard to do that if if you if you when you travel that you insist on living the same lifestyle that you did in the US you know, it's people that go to McDonald's when they travel that's one of my rules you never go to McDonald's and some of those summers in Korea I might end up there for a burger every once in a while but um so I think it's that you know, you have to have a natural curiosity about how the rest of the world works and and you know, and for me it's that you know, it was my first trip overseas which was in Singapore when I realized that how much my senses could come came alive You know, the smell, the smells, I smell the languages I heard the things that I saw and and it was my stepmother who visit me when I lived in Singapore and she really brought it to light she said it's like I've been watching black and white TV all my life and now I can see color TV. Wow, you know, I like that. And I think you have to travel with that perspective, right? You know, and you need to be willing to express a little bit about the importance of being uncomfortable you have to be willing to take some risks and be uncomfortable and accept things for the way they are where you you travel, you know, particularly in developing countries and that's usually where I'm most happiest because it is so different and is so unnatural compared to our life here. And I usually spend a lot of time just watching and listening you know, and it's like I'm at a movie you know just imagine yourself and why do you go to the movies you know it's so you can get immersed in a different world and and you know, the thing that I noticed when I'm traveling abroad is I totally forgot about my life that continuous total I have to you know, and I find myself waking up in the morning just trying to remember where I am and I've I've had some you know, I had one summer I was in 11 different countries so literally it was really hard sometimes I was but but you know I think in order to immerse yourself in a country you have to you have to go in it with that that curiosity and that desire to learn and resist the temptation to to to get your the trappings of an American culture In fact, I remember one year I got every haircut I got in one year was in a different country. I would literally wait because really on it. Yeah, I wanted to experience and the most memorable was an equivalent of a $2 haircut. I think it was in that village in northern Thailand. And one of the things that was interesting about the haircut is they turn my head on it side and they trimmed all the the hair inside my ear using a razor blade. So hey, you know, I mean, it's and that's what you have. Yeah, exactly, you know, and I remember I can to this day, remember my first haircut and shave in China in 1986 and straight razor at my throat and wondering, you know, are they going to are they going to kill the imperialist dog today? Or am I going to walk out alive but so I've got a whole life of those kind of memories. But you know, those are all situations where I had to put myself in normally wouldn't be in an uncommon situation for most people. But to me, I revel in you know, diversity, I revel in diversity and the best place to find diversity is outside of your own culture and you know in someplace else and you have to walk into it like like you're going into a matinee you know, and you just want to get lost in it and in some of the best ways are just just to to sit there and watch and listen. And and I I'm not really proud to say this, I've just not never been very good at learning languages or disciplined enough to do so. It's amazing what you can get by just by learning to say, Oh, yeah, Hello and thank you in a language and that's generally how I get by.

Rick Denton: 39:40

And it's amazing how few folks I know when I've traveled with it skip that step it's just just the basics and I have certainly found in my limited compared to you my limited travels, how just those simple pleasantries melt any sort of barrier Yeah, there's there's the realization that at least you're trying to So I found that to be the case, man, Tom, I'm sitting here just sort of blown away. You talked about sitting back at a movie at a matinee, I feel like I just went through a movie and I was kicking back and just enjoy the immersive experience of listening to your stories and gleaning from your wisdom. One thing I do want to ask if our listeners did want to learn a little bit more about you or the CX master's program, where should they go to learn about that or learn more about you?

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 40:28

Well, yeah, we haven't really publicized a whole lot about the mascots degree, because it's not approved yet. But I would love to chat with anyone about it. The best way to find me is through LinkedIn. Just look up Tom de Wit, Michigan State University, I'm easy to find.

Rick Denton: 40:43

And I'll make sure I'll make sure it's in the show notes as well. Great.

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 40:47

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, over the past year, I've, I've talked to over 100 representatives of different corporations, so I'm happy to chat with anybody about it.

Rick Denton: 40:56

Well, what a great conversation, Tom, starting from helping us understand why a global perspective matters and how that influences both your customer service approaches and just simply your approach in life, and listening to all of your stories about how you approach ensuring that you're actively seeking other cultures other insight, other wisdom, other inputs and how that shaped who you are. I've been thoroughly entertained. I'm somewhat in awe with what you've been able to do and travel and hope to add some of my, at least some of my travel journals to some of the places you've been, and and some of the experience that you've had. But Tom, it's been a brilliant conversation. I've enjoyed it a ton. Thank you so much for being here on cx passport today.

Dr. Tom DeWitt: 41:37

Thanks. It's been it's been great.

Rick Denton: 41:43

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. Make sure to visit our website cxpassport.com where you can hit subscribe so you'll never miss a show. While you're at it, you can check out the rest of the EX4CX website. If you're looking to get real about customer experience, EX4CX is available to help you increase revenue by starting to listen to your customers and create great experiences for every customer every time. Thanks for listening to CX Passport and be sure to tune in for our next episode. Until next time, I'm Rick Denton, and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.