Rick Denton: 0:05

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode well talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. When you've known a work colleague for years, the journeys are fascinating to watch. Somewhere in 2011. Today's guest, John Bradley and I came to know each other as I was growing my team at JC Penney, and needed to reach externally for new talent. Well, you can imagine how much has changed since that day. I can assure you then that I didn't know I was going to start a company A decade later. And I suspect John wouldn't have predicted he'd be the Senior Director of Corporate talent acquisition at Albertsons companies. But here's something I bet the both John and I could have predicted. He'd be a leader in the world of talent acquisition, I observed then, and I still see it today how strongly John prioritizes candidate experience knowing how vital that is not just to a company's overall external image, but how it immediately influences employee experience, which we know influences customer experience. Going back to that journey, just try, just try to visualize what talent acquisition looked like back in 2011. And compare it to now. I'm eager to get into that discussion and talk all things candidate experience with John today, John, welcome to CX passport.

John Bradley: 1:39

Well, thanks, Rick. Pleasure to be here. Thank you for the kind words. So I'll I'll try and live up to that that intro for you.

Rick Denton: 1:45

Well, the beauty is, you don't have to live up to it, you have lived up to it. So these are statements of fact, not statements of hope and aspiration. But I know it'll be that way. John, thinking back to that journey that I mentioned, I bet the world's candidate experience. We didn't even use that term back then maybe we did. But it wasn't nearly as widely used as it is now. Now, folks, like you had a heart for the concept. Even the label wasn't there. But so let me just start off by asking you, what is candidate experience?

John Bradley: 2:12

You know, I've I've tried to tell people candidate experience is how what we provide to our candidates makes them feel, you know, that could be interactions. And more importantly, it could be lack of interactions. Yeah. It could be humans, and how our humans are treating candidates, that could be our software, or our systems, our application of rejection email. Right. So I think it's all those touch points throughout the entire candidate experience from the minute they have interest in you, and they let you know they have interest or they even start exploring you all the way to onboarding, those interactions or lack of interactions, how does it make them feel? And I think that's what candidate experiences?

Rick Denton: 2:55

What so take what we did if we did just a fine and replace on that answer right there. So much of that is exactly what people describe customer experience. And I love even the fact that you're talking about how it's before the candidate has even expressed an interest similar to a customer before they even know that they're going to transact with the brand. And that that visualization of the overall candidate experience is so valuable. I also like and I want to get into it a little bit later. But talking about that the candidate experience is not just the humans, it's the digital, it's the copy. It's everything that goes into that. But let's stick in this vein of just kind of the the landscape of candidate experience. So we talked about this journey. 2011. And there's been so many changes over the last decade, there's been so many changes over even a shorter timeframe. But talk me through what you've seen some of the greatest changes to candidate experience over that timeframe have been?

John Bradley: 3:49

Well, I think it's just the the creation of candidate experience, right? I mean, you're right, going back in the journey. You know, I first started recruiting in 2004, for JC Penney. And, you know, we we, of course, thought about candidate experience back then, but really only because it was the right thing to do, right. We, we knew we want to treat candidates Well, in order for them to, you know, have interest in us in come to us and apply with us and hopefully higher on with us. But it's not like anybody was saying those words. No one was saying candidate experience and there wasn't a lot of focus around it. I think about the very first applicant tracking system that I used way back when, and yes, we did have them back then by the way, I know, I'm dating myself here, but we did have applicant tracking systems. And, you know, we didn't we didn't focus in on what the application process was or, you know, auto generate the emails, or you know, a little funnel to the candidate visual funnel to show them where they were in the process. We didn't we didn't focus on any of those things. And that's the evolution over the years. It's it's how can we keep our candidates feeling good about us constantly informed and let them know where they are? In the process, and we've started using those words, candidate experience, and, you know, I've done obviously several applicant tracking systems implementations over the years. And what's interesting is the past, you know, five, six years, each time I've done them, the candidate experience that ATS provides has become a true focus point, in deciding what ATS we're going to have, right? It's measurement, you know, how is it going to make our candidates feel that's a big, big part of deciding what ATS you're gonna go with now.

Rick Denton: 5:32

I like that that's becoming it, I'm just hearing all these mirror images, any listener that is focused in CX will hear the same kind of mirror images that you're saying so much of the same things that we say in the pure customer experience space that we talk about in the candidate experience? You know, thinking about that kind of the the multiple lenses of candidate experience, you and I are here scratching the surface of brand company and the candidate, but another part of that candidate experience, there's another key partner in this and that's the hiring manager. Tell me why a focus on the hiring manager is so important, or is it let me ask that question. Why is it important? Assuming the answer is yes. Tell me why. Yeah,

John Bradley: 6:11

I would, I would agree, very important. And I think it's, it's because, you know, in recruiting, we have two customers. And, you know, candidate experience equals customer experience, you know, certainly true for us here in recruiting, and those hiring managers are very much a part of our customer base as well, just like that candidate is. So we want to make sure those hiring managers stay informed. You know, I always tell the recruiters even you have a bad update offer, offer it right, you got to let them know what's going on. And what I've, what I've learned over the years is that people fill in their own blanks. Yes, so So when the hiring manager doesn't hear from you, that equates to you're not doing anything for him, right? Or her. So let's make sure we keep them informed. But also, when the hiring manager is informed and knows what's going on, they become more engaged in that search. And those touch points that I talked about earlier with the candidate, the hiring manager has maybe not an equal amount of touch points as a recruiter, but a lot, right. And we want those touch points to be fantastic to be great, whether it's recruiting or the hiring manager. So I think if you keep them more informed, they are much more engaged and therefore offer a lot more candidate experience that heightened candidate experiences well.

Rick Denton: 7:23

you said, a very important thing that I'm even thinking about. So we're recording this folks, just first of November, that was another one of those weekends where this time it was American Airlines a few weeks ago, it was Southwest Airlines and had this operational mess. I don't wanna use the word catastrophe, because that means something different in the airline industry. And one of the things that I saw in the American case, same thing as on the southwest case, is they didn't get ahead of the communication in that regard. And so guess what happened in that silence people have filled in the gaps. You said the same thing. So in the airline, it's, well, now it's related to this protest, or it's related to that thing when it may have simply nothing to do other than an understaffing issue, but people fill in gaps. All right, that was a long preamble to ask you. Why is communication so hard? I've been the candidate before I've been the hiring manager before. And those gaps you absolutely right, I fill in so much of a story that simply doesn't exist. Why is communication such a challenge in the recruiting space?

John Bradley: 8:24

Because there's humans involved in that recruiting? Right. So I think a couple things happen. One, and I've certainly seen this, you know, with the companies that I've worked in, because many of them are sizable, right? I've worked in, you know, fortune 50, fortune 500 companies, I've worked in start startups as well. But you know, when you start getting into that size, and that volume, you know, it is difficult, because you've got, you've got 1000s of candidates that you're now trying to keep informed. Right. So I think that's one thing, but I think another thing that happens is because we're humans, we don't like to let to deliver bad news, especially in recruiting, in recruiting, if you think about the recruiters that, you know, they're positive, optimistic people trying to find other folks jobs, right? We love to, you know, get that that tap on the shoulder and say, are here, you know, great job with this with this candidate, great job providing this talent. You know, we just love that as recruiters and therefore to deliver the message sometimes of we're not moving forward with you, we haven't selected you. You know, it's just not in our nature to be good at that. And I think those two things sometimes that volume and then also the, the piece of the job that we don't like to do very much as recruiters as, as we are humans. I think that those are the two things that makes it tough sometimes for communication. I will tell you right now, you know, being a part of the Albertson scene, you know, we're talking about hundreds of 1000s of jobs that we have here. Therefore, hundreds of 1000s of applicants, there are there are candidates right now that have reached out to me, you know, recently I'm still trying to get back to you. And it's important that I do I want to do that. Yeah. But it's a challenge sometimes to get back and tell those candidates and stay on top of that on top of it all, but but that's my commitment. I will do it. It just, it may take me a little time.

Rick Denton: 10:13

Right. John, that there's something beautiful about that, right. Yeah. I think a lot of folks, as I asked that question, or were expecting the volume answer, look, if there's 100,000 candidates, and I'm one human, even if I responded once a minute it do the math, right, it doesn't seem to work out. So the volume perspective, but I like how you brought the humanity element into it as well. And I think sometimes even I've been guilty as a candidate. Now, I'm out on my own now. But as a candidate, when I was looking for those positions, I may not have thought of the recruiter as that human that is varied by that volume. And I like that you're bringing that humanity to bear here. So we talked about communication. And I'm thinking about this evolution of candidate experience that we're talking about. And I know that you don't want to stop here, you don't think that 2021 is the Nirvana? So what are some of the pain points you're trying to solve in candidate experience?

John Bradley: 11:04

Well, I think we just talked about the number one thing is communication, right? Like how do we how do we better communicate to our applicants, but if you think about our space, it's getting hyper competitive. You know, a lot of other companies are looking for that competitive edge on on talent, because the recruiting landscape, especially in the, in the last year, right, has gotten extremely tight. It's very interesting with COVID. You know, I've been recruiting since 2004, as I mentioned, and our COVID, beginning, right, in 2019, probably the loosest market I've ever seen, right? You know, there were there were candidates wherever we wanted to look at them, because of all the transition that people were going through, and then fast forward to, you know, to 2021, then, you know, we just have no applicants, or fewer, not nearly enough applicants, I'll say, right. So it's just very, very interesting that, you know, you see these companies doing a lot of different things in order to get their candidate flow up. They're using technology, they're using higher compensation, they are using flex scheduling, anything that they can do to put themselves at a competitive advantage. They're trying to do that. And that's what we're trying to do as well, you know, we're looking at the ways in which we can have our competitive advantage. One of the things that happens here at Albertsons that I've noted, is, we're very, very good at recruiting one to one, because we have a great story. You know, if I sit down with you, Rick, and maybe we'll get this opportunity sometime, for me to tell you about all the great opportunities here. And, you know, I think I've got a lot of ammunition, you know, to use and throw at you. But what we need to be better at is recruiting one to many, you know, we need to get the story of Albertsons out there, because we're not just a grocer, right, we're going through a digital transformation, we are a technology hub, we have great leaders, we're performing extremely well. And to get that story out there on a very broad basis, I think is our number one challenge. So, you know, we talked at the top about that candidate experience being well, before they, you know, make that first click, and we got to be better pre click, you know, we got to tell these guys, you know, the story of Albertsons to that weekend, get them super interested in our organization, just interested to hear more, because once they hear more, I'm telling you, we're gonna get them.

Rick Denton: 13:26

That is, yeah, that the one to one, you're right, I'm sitting here inspired. Right. And I'm not looking for a W2 position. But, you know, maybe as we click a stop on the record, you're gonna say, Hey, Rick, talk to me about the CX thing. So I, but it is a great story that you do have there, the one to many part of it. There's something you said in there, though, that intrigued me. And it was, you know, do we need better flexible schedules? Do we need higher pay? You know, I talk a lot about voice of the customer. Well, you've got voice of the candidate, or how well have you seen companies that had to be algorithms to compete in general? How well do you see companies leverage the talent acquisition team, for taking that voice of the candidate experience, and then providing that insight back to the business on these are the things that need to change, to be able to attract the best talent? How does that work like that that voc in the sense of voice of the candidate work through talent acquisition?

John Bradley: 14:22

I've seen it done. Well, I've seen it done poorly. I think in order to do that, well, though, the talent acquisition team needs to wrap that that information up really well. Right. Yeah. So I think when the recruiters go knock on hiring managers, or the knock on senior leaders door and just say we need more money, and that usually doesn't end well, right.

Rick Denton: 14:46

Rarely does that conversation, in any aspect of business end well,

John Bradley: 14:49

it does not Yeah, as my CHRO says, I've seen that movie. It doesn't end well. So I think the talent acquisition departments that do a good job of just really, you know, putting that data together and telling a data infused story to hiring managers and senior leaders, then I think you can have some influence, right. But I think you need to ensure that you're putting your senior leaders into a position where they're making data driven decisions. And if you can wrap up that voice of the candidate, inside that, that data rich story, then I've seen those companies pivot really, really well. And fortunately, here at Albertsons, you know, our senior most leaders are typically even asking, recruiting, hey, what, what do we need to do for you? Right? And that's, that's when the magic really happens when I'm not when I'm not having to, you know, go through all the data, put together an ROI story and take it upstairs when I've had senior leaders telling me, John, we need to go fast. What do you need from us? Yeah, that's when the magic happens. And fortunately, I'm blessed to be in a company that is the latter.

Rick Denton: 15:56

That's awesome. Oh, that's good. And I don't know that voice of the candidate has been said before. So now we you and I may have just coined the term. So let's, let's go with that

John Bradley: 16:04

brand new T shirts. $9.99. On sale, right. We said the candidate

Rick Denton: 16:08

can I get an end cap, though?

John Bradley: 16:10

Of course,absolutely. We'll get you an end cap right, by the right by the third register.

Rick Denton: 16:14

Perfect. That's brilliant. So let's pivot here. You know, I love me some travel talk. And I know you've had some very intriguing travel experiences. So I'm curious, how have those travel experience influence the way you approach talent acquisition?

John Bradley: 16:27

You know, it's, it's funny, when I was in supply chain for JC Penney, we went through principles of Lean training at our distribution centers. And I remember as I was going through the Lean training, the the certified, the certified instructor said, this is going to change the way you think, and live your life. Yeah. And I thought, Okay, we'll see. But you go through the training, and you're, you're sitting at a McDonald's or whatever, and you start seeing the inefficiencies. You're like, oh, man, if they could only do this, this is right, they need they need some, they need some Six Sigma training here. And it's the same with me, when I go and travel, and I see talent opportunities, you know, I will sit down for a dinner, you know, which, you know, may or may not be in a high end restaurant, and you expect some, some some great service. Yeah. And immediately when you don't receive it, you know, I start thinking, is it the right hire? Is it? Is it the right training? You know, what, what can get this team member more engaged, right? Like those are I go through that checklist in my head when it comes to talent when I'm out there? And I don't know if it's a curse? Or if it's, if it's a good thing? I'm not I'm not sure what yet, but, you know, certainly as I travel around the world, fortunately, I'm so I, as you know, very fortunate and blessed to have a wife, that's a travel agent. Yes. So, you know, that affords us some opportunities to kind of go here and there sometimes last minute, usually on good deals. So God bless her for, for saying yes, many years ago to me, but, you know, all of that has brought me around around the world. And it's very interesting to see, you know, when there's talent opportunities, you know, by Brant by dollar amount, because what what I've learned over the years is, you know, it doesn't matter if you're that five star Five Diamond hotel, if you don't have the right talent, and you're not represented well, you know, take one of those stars away, right? I mean, the money you sink in the brand that you have established, it truly does not matter. And that's what I that's what I love most about travel and having these talent perspectives

Rick Denton: 18:34

John, I know you've had the chance to travel the globe, some of that those last minute fans are absolutely delightful. But sometimes those last minute fans can actually be quite challenging on the the travel, the logistics can be a little hard, but the Hey, you get to see some great places, but it is nice to take a little break. So let's take a little break here. Join me in the first class lounge. Let's have a little fun here. What is a dream travel location from your past?

John Bradley: 18:58

From the past, I would say Curacao, lovely lovely islands, you know, went there on a cruise a few years ago and stopped there. But just a beautiful island, beautiful people, great beaches, the shopping area, you know, it's just got a little something for everybody. The I was there with my wife and my two kids at that time, we're probably I'll say 15 and 13. And when you can, when you can provide a great experience to a 13 year old, a 15 year old and then the I'll say 30 somethings to be nice. Then you're a great destination, right? When you get four. yes votes, distributed age like that. You're a pretty good destination. So anyone listening I would say if you have not been to Curacao, get to Curacao.

Rick Denton: 19:48

I like that. I need to find a way to you know brought to you by the travel board of Curacao but it is a it's a place I haven't been you know, all I know of it is sort of an ingredient in cocktails. So I do need to get there some time. Now. What is that? So uh place that you need to get to what is a dream travel location that you've not been to yet?

John Bradley: 20:05

I, I'm, I'm a cruising guy, right, like we had our first cruise in 2010. And I think we were on number 13 or 14. And now at this point, so I got a late start, but, but we've tacked it in since 2010. But they've all been pretty much Caribbean. So the dream one for me would be a Mediterranean cruise, it's going to combine cruising, which I love and the variety that a cruise brings, but it's going to put it into an environment that, you know, I just have envisioned as beautiful. You know, so I would love to get to a Mediterranean cruise at some point.

Rick Denton: 20:40

That would be nice. You know, one of the things that I like about the Mediterranean as a concept, I've never done a cruise there. But just think of the Mediterranean, the small, relatively small body of water and the diversity of experiences that exist around there. If you think of everything from you know, you've got your your Lebanon, you've got your Israel, then you've got your Spain, your Italy, Morocco, Libya, it's amazing what can be all there. And I think to the food diversity that would be in the Mediterranean, I love eating in the Mediterranean, all that food. So in that vein, what is a favorite thing for you to eat?

John Bradley: 21:11

Ah, you know, I, I'm just gonna be a boring answer for you, Rick and your your listeners, but, you know, one of those quote unquote, meat and potatoes, guys, right. So, you know, I will, I will thoroughly devour a nice steak, you know, just a great steak. Yeah, is one that I'm gonna get through pretty quickly. You know, some, you know, nice bacon wrapped filet something like that. But I will tell you that from an eating experience, you know, when you do something like a chef's table? Oh, yeah. For a couple reasons. One, it's usually small and select right. Usually not there with 100 people, you're the usually they would, let's say 10. But it's, you know, getting back to what we're talking about today that candidate experience or, or customer experience, you know, for your listeners, it's not topped, you know, when you go through a chef's table, right, you know, and that, and I'm sure many of the people listening would agree, when you're getting great experience in a great environment, that food just tastes better. Oh, yeah. You know, it just does. So you know, you do something like a chef's table, doesn't really matter what's in front of you, that experience is just wrapping it up to a point where you're like, oh, man, this is fantastic. This is the best thing ever.

Rick Denton: 22:21

I do love those chef tables that there was a place in Dallas down in detail listeners, John and I both are here in the North Texas area. So the steak answer is not a surprise anyone knowing that the there's a Texan on the other end of the line here. But a place called greenroom down in Deep Ellum that did a feed me is what they call it. And it was you just sat down there and the chef just delivered what was on their mind that day. And the experience that you get with that where you kick back and you just feel like royalty because there you don't even have to think just here is a delightful meal. Now. I'm going to ask you the other side of it. What is the thing that your parents forced you to eat but you hated as a kid?

John Bradley: 22:53

Yeah, so Texan now, but grew up a Mainer.

Rick Denton: 22:57

Oh, so where's the lobster in that answer?

John Bradley: 23:00

Yeah, that's sad. I know, I'm not I'm actually not a lobster eater, even though like I come from Maine. But you've made the first assumption that everybody makes. You know, when I grew up in Maine, I was in northern Maine, I was a good five hours from the coast and there was not a lot of lobster around me. But what was all around me that my parents forced me to eat that I hated was anything that that they procured themselves right near me, moves me. You know, things like that, that, you know that they had hunted or my family had hunted, just was not a fan and mom do it. And mom was smart enough to sneak in that deer meat mix it in with ground meat. Yeah. You know, she did a good job of hiding it from me because she knew if I knew no matter if I liked it or not, I was gonna be vocal about it. Right. So those are the things going up that moose mountain deer meat, just I can't do it.

Rick Denton: 23:52

So John, what I'm hearing there is you like things that came from the grocery store. So even as a kid, it tells me that you belonged at Albertsons, there was something that was going to take you to the Albertsons universe already.

John Bradley: 24:05

Very nice tie in sir very, very good job there.

Rick Denton: 24:07

I pulled that out of my fanny So thinking of travel and so what is one travel item you will not leave home without?

John Bradley: 24:15

Okay, this is this is kind of sad and I'm now I'm going to be embarrassed with the weather your audience here but many your first off I've always bought the other thing, right. So you know, think iPhone, I buy the Samsung, but you know when it was iPod and it was huge. I went to the Microsoft version of this Zune, Zune Zune yet the CU and the Zune because first off, I was still defend today, even though people will just laugh I will still defend today that user experience on a Zune was fantastic. All right. It was built for the person that was listening. So my old Zune, which no longer has, you know, supported software of course, it literally know how As you know, probably a couple 1000 songs on it, you know, it's super small, it's really compact. And to have a couple 1000 songs on it, you know, it still comes with me on my trips. And, you know, there's nothing better than sitting in a hammock, you know, just hitting shuffle, and seeing what's gonna come next, right. And I've got this really diverse, you know, Song base, and, you know, just nothing better than just seeing the clouds go by slowly, blue sky, it's probably a drink at the side, you know, and we just shuffled music across, across all genres.

Rick Denton: 25:41

John, I feel very relaxed coming out of the first class lounge now that feels very delightful. I did not expect the Microsoft Zune to make an appearance. So congratulations, I'm shocked by every guest and unique ways. And you have shocked me in many ways already. Kind of thinking about shock, I want to go a little bit, you know, kind of the negative side of things here. So there's an area of contention in the talent acquisition space automation. We talked about ATS earlier, you've talked about all the improvements. There's a tension there between automation humanity, you can read it from candidate experiences, and then people talk about it. We think about it too, with one sided video interviews. And I know that that's not your spirit. That's not what you're striving for. But as you mentioned, 1000s the volumes, right, it requires some so how do you are you resolving that tension between the spirit that the humanity, the automation in the spirit of candidate experience?

John Bradley: 26:31

Yeah, I think we're trying to find that equilibrium. You know, I know here an opportunity, that's what we're we're trying to do as well, we actually our talent acquisition leaders are coming together very soon, for a candidate experience meeting that we're going to have, we're going to map out the ideal candidate journey. And one of the things that I've already laid out is one of my stake points in that meeting, will be to infuse AI and automation. Yeah. But it feels like contact, right. And I think that's super important. I think when you look at the candidates, they want the human interaction, they want it to be fast, but they want the human interaction. If you look at what the companies are trying to do, for the most part, I'm being stereotypical here and brush stroking. But the candidate, or the companies are all trying to go AI and automate everything and go super fast. Yeah, neither of those are ideal. And I don't think either of those are actually scalable, or, you know, achievable, either. So we're trying to find that equilibrium of how can we bring in automation in AI to go faster to get our candidates, the communication that they deserve? But make sure it feels like contact? You know, I, I don't want the template form letter, you know, going out to 1000s and 1000s of candidates, you know, we got to make sure make sure it feels like contact, and that's the struggle, right? How do we how do we bring it in? Don't bring in too much. How do we infuse it in the right places at the right time? And how do we make sure it feels like touch and feels feels like, you know that there's human interaction there when maybe there's not?

Rick Denton: 28:02

Yeah, John, that's, I like that. Even like the fact that you're describing this exercise that your company is about to go through that you're about to go through a candidate experience journey mapping? And what does that look like? And how does that that land well with the candidate, I just took a quick cheat over here and looked at the time, my gosh, we're out of time, John, I've got about 1000. Other questions that I want to ask you will have to bring you back on another episode. But I do want to ask this of you. So how can if people want to talk to you about candidate experience, or even if they want to explore opportunities at Albertsons, and I'll get this into the show notes, but tell us how folks can reach out to you or learn more about algorithms?

John Bradley: 28:40

Well, it's like any other recruiter out there, obviously, I'm on LinkedIn, and easy to reach that way. But feel free to just let me know if you want to talk about candidate experience. If you want to talk about Albertsons and the opportunities that we have, of course, I'm here for you. And you can always easily reach me. Simple simple name, and company combo and my email john.bradley@albertans.com. We'd love to talk to anybody about what we have to offer or how I can help you with that experience.

Rick Denton: 29:11

That's awesome, John, and willingness to be open and out there with the direct contact that shows me that level of humanity there. John, it's been great talking with you today. Again, you surprised me in many ways. I love talking about humanity and the technology of the evolution of things. Again, who would have thought a decade ago when we were sitting there, JC Penney, that we'd be having this conversation today, but I'm so delighted that we are having it. Thank you for being a guest on CX passport today, John, I really enjoyed it.

John Bradley: 29:35

Thanks for a pleasure to be here.

Rick Denton: 29:40

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. Make sure to visit our website cxpassport.com where you can hit subscribe so you'll never miss a show. While you're at it, you can check out the rest of the EX4CX website. If you're looking to get real about customer experience, EX4CX is available to help you increase revenue by starting to listen to your customers and create great experiences for every customer every time. Thanks for listening to CX Passport and be sure to tune in for our next episode. Until next time, I'm Rick Denton, and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.