Rick Denton: 0:05

You're listening to CX Passport, the show about creating great customer experiences with a dash of travel talk. Each episode well talk with our guests about great CX, travel...and just like the best journeys, explore new directions we never anticipated. I'm your host Rick Denton. I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport. Let's get going. With a name like CX passport, this is most definitely a global podcast. That's why I'm so happy when I get to hear voices from around the globe tell their perspective on customer experience. Today is one of those days as I get to talk with Olga Budieri talking with us from Amman, Jordan. Olga is the Global Head of Customer experience at Aramex, a Dubai based international courier transportation and logistics services company with a mission to ignite the passion for customer experience in the Arab region. Olga knows what it takes to create CX transformations at an enterprise level spanning design, voice of the customer journey mapping, and even getting to that heart those cultural shifts to customer centricity. Sadly, I've only had the chance to change planes and Jordan, but today I will experience it vicariously in my talk with Olga. Olga. Welcome to CX passport.

Olga Budieri: 1:30

Hi, everyone. Thank you, Rick, I'm very excited to be here today.

Rick Denton: 1:33

I truly, this is so exciting for me, you're right first person to talk to on this podcast from Jordan, I can't wait to get the Arabic perspective on customer experience. It is it is exciting for me. So let's just start with something that I saw on your LinkedIn profile. Your title starts with architecting human experiences. Tell me why you chose that as your headline.

Olga Budieri: 1:56

I think a lot of the times we focus, we zoom in a lot on the customer experience. And we forget that there are people who are delivering this experience. And in this new economy where we have Uber based working models, and so on, so forth. So we have, for example, our MCs fleet or we have our MC spot, we have a lot of setups where we rely on the community to deliver parts of the services as well as our teams. So we try to build a lot of the tools that are centered around the customer experience, but also around the human experience. So we make sure that whoever's operating this, they don't have a lot of mental load, they are aware of the steps. It's very simple, user friendly, and so on, so forth. So that's why the word human experiences was important to me, you know that that really fits with me actually all because it fits that architecting and human part of it. I think there's something special in what you've described to me there is you talk about the humans and getting it right for the humans. But you mentioned if I don't have the exact right words, but you know, the process behind it and making sure that they're equipped to do that, how do you blend that those sort of human and process worlds together, so that you don't have just the coldness of process? Or the just, let's just call it the very loose nature of humans? How do you bring those two worlds together? It's definitely an iterated process. So it's not a one size fits all, it's not something that you do once. And typically, whenever we launch a solution work on developing a lot of our solutions in house. So whenever we launch, we would try it out in one location, figure out how it works, and then figure out how we can globalize it. So this will rely on feedback from our people, feedback from the community feedback from the customers, whether it works and obviously voice of the business. So is it actually achieving the purpose or not? So this is how we try to scale up. And we try to figure it out in different locations. So sometimes we try it in UAE, sometimes, right in KSA. Sometimes we try things in Australia, South Africa, and then we scale up. So there is always that variability and learning from different places across the globe. I'd like to unpack that a little bit. And you've even talked about how you said, we're guilty of starting with this just laser focus on our own neighborhoods. And I know that, you know, a lot of times specifically those of us from the West have a very western perspective. And that's why I love talking to folks that are outside of the West to get a non western perspective. You've said a very similar thing of starting that focus in the neighborhoods, it goes to what you're describing there testing and exploring those global How do you balance that local with this global perspective on customer experience? It is it's definitely a day to day thing I would say. So there's there's a global strategy. There's an annual strategy that we put in place. There's constant communication with our local stakeholders. And a lot of the times it's, it's mutual or it comes from different places. So sometimes it's someone from South Africa saying, you know, look, guys, this solution you have the global one is great, but I'm looking at something else. And that's where we will intervene backup, we will say, how about we explore together, they want to build it together, they want to build it on your own. And then we, we iterate, align and learn from you. So it's always a mutual process of who, you know how we will take it. We tend to call ourselves more of a democracy. So there is always a global perspective, there is a global knowledge base. But then each of our locations is independent, and they can take or make their own decisions as far as how they want to build experiences. And obviously, there's a mutual exchange and support between both teams I like that flow back and forth. I've talked a little bit at times at other times, about how 2020 is the year that not everything changed. And one of the things that's so important, is that learning from your frontline, and then taking solutions from the frontline. So adapting that a little bit to what you just described there. If I would consider South Africa say a quote, frontline working directly with the customers of AirMech. Being able to understand what their experience directly with the customer bring that back into the global headquarters, if you will, and then co design together. I think that's a valuable approach. It's something that you know, not everybody really pays attention that frontline. And I'm glad to hear that y'all do I have one question for you? It's just almost a very quick question. You said voice of the business. Is that because air is very often a, a b2b approach, is that why you you do voice of the business? Actually, it's, we have a lot of focus on corporate or b2b customers. But also, we have a huge focus on b2c or consumers, as we call them. And because we're such a wide, wide provider of services, so we've got everything under the sun, you know, we've got B to B, B to B to C, B to C, every single model that you can think of three PL four PL five field was all there. And our all ecommerce products, obviously, but what I meant by was the business was more into is it achieving the objectives, the efficiency objectives, the goals of the business? Is it achieving the financial objectives? Is it scalable? So sometimes when we look at certain solutions in terms of customer communications or terms of experiences, it might be a great solution. But when you look at for example, you know, if I tell you the volumes that we receive, as far as shipments, etc, then you imagine the scale. So how many people are going to be asking, Where's my package? That's the million people. So then when you look at this scale, it's great as a small solution, but it cannot be scaled up. So this is when we look at the voice of the business, is it scalable? Is it more efficient, and so on, so forth? Gosh, such a brilliant approach of blending that outside and of customer with the Inside Out of process. And operations, the we hear a lot of talk about, you know, understanding the ROI of customer experience, I love that idea, the voice of the business so that from the very beginning, you are choosing to integrate these customer experience solutions, these customer experience ideas into the business objective. So they're not viewed as something separate, but rather advancing the business forward. And I like that. Let me I know there's an area of your background in the context center. I know you've done a ton of work in that area. So I'm kind of curious, to your perspective, how do we make that both a more intelligent and a customer responsive type experience? Yeah, that's that's the question. I think that's the million dollar question that the whole world is brought, isn't it? It is definitely connected to scalability. And it's it's definitely not something that you do overnight. What we've started to work with, and this was probably four or five years back, looking at what kinds of requests are coming to the contact center, and why and what is the underlying process? So for example, if someone's striking their package, what are they trying to learn from Arabic? Why aren't they using our digital tools? can can we automate it and we ended up building an ecosystem of voice bots with human hand over whenever there is an issue. So the system is intelligent enough, it will figure out if you have an issue with their package, it will automate automatically connects you to a human agent. Versus if you just had a simple query, it will answer it and then offer to connect you in some instances, or potentially offer to do certain actions because we deliver a lot of packages to receivers. And we deliver a lot of ecommerce and a lot of banking products. So welcome kits, credit cards, PIN codes, and some of these tend to be shipments where signatures required or the actual person receiving the package is required to be on premise. So we need to confirm whether you're there for delivery. So if there is such an issue Since where we need to confirm delivery, the system's intelligent enough to figure that out. And it will trigger this instance for you. So that we ensure that the whole journey is streamlined. So when we look at contact center, we're not just looking at in terms of the calls we're trying to figure out, are we streamline new the journey all across? Where are we solving, for example, issue with the contact center and creating an issue with operations? I mean, that balance there as well, A very thoughtful approach of making sure that when you get busted out the silos, you're looking across all the areas, I like that preemptive strike of understanding what the customer predicting why the customer is contacting you in the first place. There was a podcast guest, I remember the episode as a few ago, Ido Cohen talked about that exact thing of if the inbound, if you already know that the package is delayed. And if the customer is contacting you, there's a 99% chance they're calling you about that package. And so pre presenting solutions up front, rather than making the customer go through the entire description of what's happening. That approach Olga makes a ton of sense to me. And I, I think we all welcome that. And that would be more customer responsive. Now, I'm going to pivot on you here a little bit. I know that working for a logistics company, I imagine you've had some interesting travel experiences. Now when we talked ahead of time, you'd mentioned a trip to Dubai, a place that I am so eager to see. I would just tell me about your experience in Dubai. So which one? tell me about any experience in Dubai? Now I'm really jealous. I've never been and you get to say "which experience in Dubai?" Wonderful. Well, before the pandemic, actually, my role was requiring to spend a week in Dubai every month. So that's a lot of back and forth, obviously. And I think it's it's, it's it's a lot of just experiences combined. I've never seen I think that's interesting part. I've never seen Dubai as a tourist. Okay. Been there probably 2030 times maybe. But I haven't actually experienced the city. So I get to experience it as someone working in Dubai, maybe. Yeah, so it's arriving on Saturday afternoon, working in the logistics center, which is about 4045 minutes away from the city centre. From Sunday till Tuesday afternoon, and then flying back. So this is a very difficult trip format for me. I think it's a very interesting city with a lot of interesting people. Maybe one of the most interesting, it's a very short flight. But one of the most interesting pieces was when we had to travel within a day to Dubai and all of the flights were booked. So we ended up taking the longest route to Dubai. You don't take transit to divide and because everything else was booked we got a transit flights through my friends. So that was very interesting. Okay. Yeah, like started really long detour. That is a really long detour. That's a surprising little path that you had to take there the worst part was the detour buck.

Rick Denton: 13:18

Okay,

Olga Budieri: 13:19

Cause you know, it's coming. Oh, good. I've experienced that, too. So I've done some travel in my past with some companies that I've worked for. And it is interesting the difference between being a, they're on a business trip. And then there as a tourist, I've had the chance to do kind of both on the same trip a couple times. I Hong Kong is one that comes to mind, I would actually always try to when I was doing Asian trips, I would try to make sure that I had my weekends in Hong Kong, and so that I could at least have a couple of days to be just a isolated tourist rather than part of the Horde touring factories. And the like, did you ever Is there is there one particular experience in Dubai that you remember, maybe a meal, maybe a restaurant that or something that might be particularly special? I think I think definitely the first one was quite interesting. So I'm this is the part where I'm jealous, because when you have two kids, you don't get to spend extra time. That's true. Obviously, we'll get there and back as fast as possible. But the first time and because I was not used to the scale of maybe the shopping centers, the locations and divide and sort of the traffic, because Jordan tends to be a smaller city in terms of the setup and in terms of the buildings. So I was in awe of all of the high rise buildings, and then we went to Dubai Mall. And this is a place where you would probably spend the whole day and you're just walking at a very slow pace and exploring. But my manager at the time he was we were late to dinner so he was taking me through all of those schools of attractions. So he's like, this is the fountain of the angels and we're just rushing. We found one With the music and the lights in front, of course ready for and you know, and we're just rushing through it. So it was a very fast forward mishmash of stuff happening. Dinner was great though

Rick Denton: 15:15

Olga with that kind of rushing around, and it may be not between Jordan, and Dubai, but hopefully you've had a chance to experience the lounge of it, you need a little rest with all that the two kids and my goodness, let's so let's just take a little break here, a little change of pace, join me in that first class lounge and we'll hopefully have a little fun here. What is a dream travel location from your past place you've been?

Olga Budieri: 15:41

So I would definitely want to go to Austria again, I was there as a student, I would love to go to Austria, maybe on vacation, just experience the city in a different light as a as an adult is a bit as a young adult, actually has a credit card and can experience.<laughter> I'm sorry, those that I know it's an audio podcast, I am laughing and rolling back in my chair because it brings some memories to me, Oh God, I was the cliched backpacker, after my university time. And so I did Europe in a backpack on a 50 US dollar a day budget back in the 90s. And that included lodging, everything else. So I understand that desire to go back when you have money that's opposed to the student version of it. And I imagine that Austria and Jordan have quite different experiences. And that would be fun to see. Thinking about going forward. So you've never been to this place before. But what is a dream travel location that you have not been to yet? I tend to fantasize about either going to maybe India or maybe somewhere in South America somewhere with a lot of jungles and a lot of exotic creatures. And just trying to figure out sort of the National Geographic version of things. Yes. Like a nature kind of experience. Not necessarily typical safari with the elephants but more of you know, where are they showed that cooking shows the chef's or cooking in front of rainforest. And I like that I like the idea of combining the the rainforest and the in the cooking aspect of it. So now you've given me a segue to my next question, which is, what is a favorite thing to eat for you? That's a tricky one. I think it would it be a local or international cuisine. It's whatever you want to say. So for international cuisine, I would go for sushi for local. Probably I don't know if you've ever experienced this, but we have this stuffed coin leaves. Okay. What's the green rake leaves that are stuffed usually with rice and meat?

Rick Denton: 17:47

Yes, I know. I have had it at Greek restaurants and Mediterranean rice. So I know. For some reason the name is escaping me, but it's delicious. What's on the other side, Olga. So growing up, what is the thing your parents made you eat? But you really didn't like as a kid?

Olga Budieri: 18:05

Um, I don't I don't have memories of actually eating it. But I think this is the the heart of every child who has a Eastern European background. So there's this Russian dish called Khaled Yes. Okay. It's typically a jelly with pieces of meat or pork or chicken in it. And it's very multifaceted because you could heat it and eat it as a soup as well. But it's definitely kids in terror of Boy, I can imagine. Yeah, that does not sound like something that kids would enjoy. I'm not sure I would enjoy it as an adult. But I'm always willing to try something. So if I'm there, I will I will. I will try it. I just may not enjoy it. So now thinking back to travel what is one travel item and you can include your phone that you will not leave home without? Definitely my hair stuff. My hair straightener, hair, curlers, stuff like that. Okay, I think your last answer to that question just hits me at my heart as someone who has hair just disappearing as rapidly as possible. I would love to need to travel with a haircut. But sadly, my hair is starting to abandon me. You mentioned growing up in Moldova, and you're working for a Dubai company. You're living in Jordan having grown up there in Moldova. And I grew up in Austin, Texas, USA and I thought I was cool, but you totally have me beat. How has that global experience all these regions? How has it shaped your approach to customer experience? I think definitely diversity and understanding their differences between cultures is something that we've we've always been aware of since I was a child. Especially the contrast with the In European and Arab culture, our culture is very, it's very persistent. So for example, if you have a guest who's coming over, and they you offer them something to drink the refuse the first time, you have to offer three times, okay? Or you're kind of fired out of the culture. But Eastern European people tend to be more, okay, fine, that settle down. So this was always a difference that I was aware of. Also, the multilingual aspect of it. So I've grown up always speaking multiple languages, so Arabic, Russian, and then English from school and French from school as well. So this has sort of enabled me to to read different things in different cultures experience different ways, how cultures, express themselves, in terms of languages, and so on, so forth. And it always piques my interest into how people express themselves. I think in some cultures, I was watching. It was a tad podcast, where someone was mentioning a culture did not use the words east or west. But they use the words north or straight or something to that effect. So they were exploring how the difference in the wording impacts the way people think, their sensitivity to certain topics or their approach. So this has always intrigued me. Because experiencing different places of the world. Yeah, that's so important. I have, I've only grown up in the US. And so my family, thankfully, I was born into a family that loved to travel, and chose to expose ourselves to the globe through travel. And then I'm doing the same hopefully, with my own children trying to do the same and expose them to the cultures. It's so important over what you're describing there of the idea of the recognition that the way I know it is not the only way it is done. The saying east and west as normal to me, but perhaps for others. It's another way though, and I love your example of the persistence, because there's a little part of me in the US, especially in maybe Texas, or the southern US has a little bit of that hospital, no, no, take the string, take that kind of stuff. But I also have a bit of a, alright, you don't want it fine. Let's move on. And so maybe I've got a little Eastern European in me as well. But that understanding that just because the way I do it is not necessary the way they do it, and being able to be open to those differences. Travel and exposure to different regions is so important. And so since we've established, right, we've that customer experience is not the same around the world. You had mentioned to me earlier that this digital adoption, which is so important to a lot of things that we've experienced, but you're seeing that digital adoption is not the same across the globe, way. It's country by country, region by region. And what are you seeing, and what do you think is driving some of those differences. So that definitely the adoption of maybe tools as mainstream this impacts the adoption of tools as customers. So let me give you an example of that, or elaborate. So for example, we have huge with a customer base, or active user base on our WhatsApp Chatbot. Probably over 13 million at the moment. And this This is varying across the world. But then if you're in a country, where WhatsApp is prevailing as a means of communication, so more, you are more likely to accept a query or workflow triggered by our mix on the WhatsApp chatbot visa V. If you're in a country where maybe Facebook is more prevalent, then you will be more present there or if it's Snapchat, or if it's none of these social media tools. So for example, in China, you would find WeChat, and so on so forth. Australia used to be one of the countries where we had really, obviously WhatsApp was not one of the tools where you would be looking at, I think, after the pandemic, or during the pandemic, the Australian Government was using WhatsApp to notify citizens about certain updates related to COVID, and so on. And that ramped up the digital adoption. So we ended up building a chat bot there as well, that is dedicated for Australian customers. So this is one of the things that would definitely drive having users actually present on the platform or on the digital location. And it's very easy to actually engage them once they are there rather than acquire them on that platform or a patient. And this is where we try to meet our customers, and then probably the urgency of what you're ordering or the urgency of what you're expecting or expecting apart. You're not expecting it. If I'm expecting a wedding dress, say, or a Christmas present, I will be very eager eager to answer or send you my location or send you my preferred dates of delivery, right? Versus if I'm expecting, for example, you know, an envelope from the court, to me a lot of difference, what's you're expecting. And we tend to have different products across the different countries. So that can also be something to look at. I think definitely also some of the some of the countries and the way they look at languages. So a lot of the customers that golf, we tend to give them two options English and Arabic. But then as you expand, you might find other languages or people who are, for example, Turkey, they're very proud of their language, they don't typically engage in English platforms, or in conversations English, so you have to be very adaptive to increase digital adoption there. And that's how we try to build workflows in local languages as well. And that goes back to the question that we were talking about before. And that is the appreciation that the way we do it is not the same as the way they are, you know, the weeds and the vase and different regions, how they may do it. And so being attuned to your customers approach, I've talked to, you know, companies before us that the China example, specifically they were doing a voice the customer program, and had failed to consider that in China is WeChat. And email is almost always ignored. And so helping them involve their Chinese customers required that understanding the culture and the way that that culture wanted to communicate. I want to close that. Oh, so go ahead. I was going to say this is the part where the ongoing collaboration with the local teams vs. Very important because these are things that we would not normally know from an HQ perspective, but then our teams have the ground or into and then they're aware of the cultural sensitivity, and so on, and so forth. So, so important that frontline, don't design your customer experience in a boardroom in a conference room without understanding and getting not just understanding, but getting that input from the frontline. Olga, I'm sad to say we're getting close to the end of time here. And so I wanted to close out with something that I mentioned back in the introduction, and you had mentioned that it was your mission to ignite the passion for customer experience in the Arab region. I love that. Just tell me more about the desire and how do you plan to go about that mission. One of the things that I was noticing that we don't, we don't have a lot of content around customer experience in Arabic. And we have this new generation of young professionals or, or might be the resources are there, they can get to them in English, but they don't necessarily maybe connect the dots. So we were trying, it's not only myself, it's a group of other CX professionals as well, to create original content in Arabic specific to the region, or maybe some of the trainings that are more specific, maybe some of the articles that talk about the challenges faced by CX professionals in the Arab world, or even in some force translating part of the content for people who might want to be able to experience it in different languages, and just creating that hub of information where they can access it. So that's definitely something that you can't achieve overnight. I'm hoping that we're able to create more resources for our people, so that they can just get the basics of it and then start creating and adding more perspective and thoughts on that as well. I have seen so much energy around customer experience in that region. That's why I feel so lucky to have been introduced to you so that I can hear that perspective, because I only know my perspective, and getting more of that the whole Arab region as to the approach to customer experience and how we can grow that and I love how what you described there was not a case of, you know, how can we import more from the west? Or how can we get more thought leaders from Europe, but rather how do we create the environment that speaks to it in the Arabic language in the Arabic culture, and allow thought leaders from within that culture to create their own version of what customer experience looks like in that region? Brilliant, I absolutely love that, Olga. I did mention we're kind of near the end of time and that's that's really it. But I do want to close out by asking, you know, how can people if they want to learn more about Aramex if they want to, you know, learn more about you and your role? How can they get in touch with you. So feel free to get in touch via my LinkedIn profile. I've got all my info there, my email, my phone number, etc. And if you want to drop me a meal at at my aerobics meal, you can just drop me it's all got omics.com Well, I will make sure all of that gets into the show notes and so that folks can contact you there. You're a great voice of customer experience for the region. You're a great voice of customer experience in general. Olga, I've enjoyed talking with you today I've come away with learnings that even I didn't expect. And I'm I'm super excited about it. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me about customer experience about customer experience in the region, your stories from around the globe. I greatly appreciate it all. Go have a great rest of your day. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Rick Denton: 30:24

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. Make sure to visit our website cxpassport.com where you can hit subscribe so you'll never miss a show. While you're at it, you can check out the rest of the EX4CX website. If you're looking to get real about customer experience, EX4CX is available to help you increase revenue by starting to listen to your customers and create great experiences for every customer every time. Thanks for listening to CX Passport and be sure to tune in for our next episode. Until next time, I'm Rick Denton, and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.